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    Okay, I have previously mentioned that I am just coming back to the game, and I wanted to put a 5-color back together. Now, I am on a bit of a budget, and I am not too sure what level of proxying I want to do in my local environment, so we'll see about that. I know I should have Tarmogoyf in this list, and Thoughtseize, and some other things (power is lacking, but due to my use of Deed/Disk, etc, that might not be a bad thing). What I have here is a modest example of G/B "The Rock" deck which found a nice home back in extended when combo was ruling the day. I figured that this would be a nice archetype to scale up to the 5-color size, and that there were a lot of ways to go with it. When I last played, Entomb and Recurring nightmare were restricted, as well, so I eventually decided to go with a reanimation route as well. This is a very rudimentary list, and will be heavily revised while I put the cards together. But I'll try to explain my reasoning behind most of the cards here. White (25) Swords to Plowshares (4) Vindicate (4) Path to Exile (4) Eladamri's Call (4) Mystic Enforcer (4) Kitchen Finks (4) Balance(1) Ray of Revelation (1) Academy Rector (1) Enlightened Tutor (1) Blue (25) Fact or Fiction (4) Circular Logic (4) Evasive Action (4) Stifle (4) Mulldrifter (3) Mystical Tutor (1) Intuition (1) Gifts Ungiven (1) Tinker (1) Personal Tutor (1) Inkwell Leviathan(1) Black (56, plus "reanimation cards") Duress (4) Cabal Therapy (?) (4) Tainted Pact (4) Contract From Below (4) Chainer's Edict (4) Diabolic Edict (4) Putrefy (4) Maelstrom Pulse (4) Recurring Nightmare (4) Pernicious Deed (4) Entomb (4) Buried Alive (4) (Reanimation Suite?: Exhume, Reanimate, Corpse Dance, Necromancy, Makeshift Mannequin, Life//Death, Stitch Together, Unearth, Zombify, Living Death, Twilight's Call, Lilliana Vess) Avatar of Woe (1) Teneh the Harvester (1) Mind Twist (1) Yawgmoth's Will (1) Yawgmoth's Bargain (1) Vampiric Tutor (1) Demonic Tutor (1) Demonic Consultation (1) Red (25) Ancient Grudge (4) Recoup (4) Pyroblast (4) Fire/Ice (4) Sudden Shock (3) Flametongue Kavu (3) Gamble (1) Squee, Goblin Nabob (1) Hellkite Overlord (1) Anger (1) Green (76) Yavimaya Elder (4) Yavimaya Granger (4) Avenging Druid (4) Thornscape Battlemage (4) Wall of Blossoms (4) Wall of Roots (4) Wall of Mulch (4) Stampeding Wildebeests (4) Stampeding Serow (4) Krosan Tusker (4) Spiritmonger (4) Beast Attack (4) Krosan Grip (4) Genesis (2) Spike Weaver (2) Spike Feeder (4) Worldly Tutor (4) Verdant Force (1) Simic Sky Swallower (1) Lord of Extinction (1) Panglacial Worm (2) Silvos, Rogue Elemental (2) Survival of the Fittest (1) Eternal Witness (1) Hermit Druid (1) Regrowth (1) Crop Rotation (1) Artifact (20-25) Sensei's Divining Top (4) Phyrexian Furnace/Relic of Progenitus/Tormod's Crypt (4 total?) Felwar Stone (4) Engineered Explosives (4) Skullclamp (4) Masticore (2) Oblivion Stone /Nevinyral's Disk JItte (?) (2-4) Isochron Scepter (1) Lands (Figure it out later, but a fair amount of basics to go with some of the green cards) Toolbox (?) Monk Realist Bone Shredder Qasali Pridemage Aven Mindcensor etc, etc. White There's nothing really special here. I've got swords and path, balance, restricted tutors and multicolored cards from my two primaries (Vindicate from black, Call, Enforcer, Finks from green). What about Land Tax and/or Weather Wayfarer? What about Glory? Revillark? Blue My blue feels funny, I could never figure quite what to do with it. Gifts Ungiven and Intuition seem overpowered regardless, so they went in with the other restricted cards. FoF is of course stupid, and Mulldrifter I brought in as a good source of card advantage, especially with reanimation tricks. The other cards are various easy-to-cast counters. The Inkwell is a great tinker target or reanimation target. No power nine here, so is there something else obvious that I am missing? Red Some burn, some artifact destruction, pyroblast and recoup. The Kavu are good, and could be fun to recur. The hellkite is a reanimation target, and Squee might be the first critter I get with an active Survival of the Fittest. Gamble seems natural, and Anger can make my reanimators hit quickly. Green Since I don't plan on having a lot of money to spend on dual-lands or even cheap things like pain lands or filter lands (although if I want until these latter rotate out of standard, I can probably pick up a bunch for cheap), I wanted to use green as a way to even out my manabase and have some consistency there. Hence the standard "The Rock" critters - yavimaya granger and elder. They get lands, and can really help with the card advantage. Ditto with the Avenging Druid and Krosan Tusker, who will also fill up the graveyard with some fatties (and Genesis with Tusker can be really nice). The Walls are there to smooth draws, add mana, and provide bodies to block early or sac to recurring nightmare or whatever (good edict protection for my shrouded fatties). The Stampeders might be very good - or they might completely suck. Almost all of the green critters in the deck have a 187 effect, so they could easily be abused (Draw with Wall of Blossoms, Reset Wall of Roots, Finks, or Spike counters, more land searching, Eternal Witness, Thornscape Battlemage). But, that's eight slots that look really bad unless you have a few things to use WITH them. I am leaning towards taking them out, but they could really be good. Similary, what about Sylvan Library? It seems to be redundant with the Top, but is not a bad card in the least with all of these shuffle effects. The rest of green is either utility (Krosan Grip, great for Crypt or Relic), Restricted cards (Regrowth, H.Druid, and the all-important Survival) or Fatty reanimation targets. The fatties I chose either trample or do something really cool. The Lord of Extinction is mostly there for a joke. I would absolutely love to play him in a multiplayer game, or even late in a two-player game where he has over 100 power. Verdant Force is also probably underpowered, but provides lots of little guys to sac to Recurring nightmare, and offers its own edict protection. But the big tramplers and the flying shroud guy are probably pretty good. Are there other things that are obviously missing (I am aware of the lack of Tarmogoys. They would rock in this deck, but I am not prepared to spend the $ on 4 of them). Black Black is interesting. I have the standard broken black cards, and some good non-targetting creature kill (althought the diabolic edicts might be too narrow). Pernicious Deed is a staple of The Rock, and rightly so. Since Recurring Nightmare is unrestricted, I thought I'd play four. That led to the idea of adding a lot of reanimation. The best, in my opinion, are: Reanimate, Life/Death, Necromancy, Zombify. Exhume is great early, but clearly loses power later, unless you are controlling their graveyard. Makeshift Mannequin is nice at instant speed, but the creature is likely to die. Stich Together is the opposite of Exhume, but is awesome as soon as you have threshold. Corpse Dance is also great late game, as you can sac the creature to something else and take advantage of any 187 or leaves-play effects, and just keep doing it over and over. Then there's Entomb, which is great for any critter or any flashback card, and Buried Alive, which can set up all kinds of stupid things, especially with the graveyard incarnations or squee or if Recurring nightmare is on the table. I think I am missing out on Black fatties, as I have only chosed Teneh and Avatar of Woe. What else would be cool in this spot, and how many fatties overall do you think would be good? What's the right number of Living Death/Twilight's Calls? Should I play Lilliana Vess? Her Tutor and Ultimate seem awesome in a deck like this (The Rock played lots of tutors back in the day). Necropotence? Artifacts Fairly simple here. Skullclamp seems like a good deal if I have critters dying a bunch. Explosives seems like a better Powder Keg (and I ran those all the time in my old 250-card decks). Felwar Stones were always cool, and they seem like a fine budget (read: poor-man's) mox diamond. Top is awesome, especially with all the library searching I can do. Masticore may be out of place, but he is quite the beast. Disk and/or Oblivion stone supplements the Deeds as sweepers, and Scepter is almost auto-include. Lands As I said, I'll figure these out last. But it stands to reason that I'd like a fair number of basics, mostly to make my land searchers relevant. Toolbox: With the large number of creature tutors (12 at least, with the Call, Wordly, Buried Alive; then you add in the entomb, the survival and the black tutors), I thought about including a number of 1-ofs for various toolbox purposes. There are already some good toolbox critters in the deck, but I would think about adding something that killed lands (Avalanche Riders was the deal in my day, is there something better now?) maybe a discard critter, or Aven Mindcensor, which seems really, really good. Any other toolbox creatures that I should have a look at? (Acidic Slime is attractive as an almost-universal answer, but it is so damned expensive). Sorry for the length of the post, I just wanted to let you guys know where I was coming from with some of these wacky card choices. I'm aware that, as posted, there are over 200 cards, so I will need to cut some stuff anyway. That's fine, as this is just a rough list I put together while I was supposed ot be working. Also, the last set I played extensively was Mirrodin block, so I might not know cards from sets between then and . . . Shards, I guess (I've looked at a bunch of Shards block). Shit, Tooth and Nail. Triskelon and Mephidross Vampire was a thing in Mirrodin block, wasn't it? Yeah, I'll add those into the Green . . . All comments are appreciated.
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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    If you're adding Tooth, you need one Trike, one Vampire, one Kiki-Jiki, and one Pestermite. If you want to just get fat, reanimator stuff should be good enough. Also, if you're running stuff like buried alive, why not run the Dragon package? It's not the best combo in the world, but it still wins games, and it fills red slots.
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    Dragon Package meaning? Sorry man, I am just not 100% up on the lingo. something like: Karrthus, Tyrant of Jund Bladewing the Risen Other Fat Dragon (I've got the Hellkite Overlord, but Nicol Bolas is cool if he can hit)? Also, with the buried alive, I could run 4x Demigod of Revenge. Search for three of 'em, reanimate one and the other two come for free. I also thought of Oversold Cemetary. Pretty sure that would be good in here.
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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    Worldgorger Dragon. There are plenty of primers on themanadrain.com or starcity that can teach you how it works better than I could. It combos when reanimated with the enchantments.
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      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    The Worldgorger combo Dipstik is referring to revolves around putting a Worldgorger Dragon and a creature that has a mana ability into the graveyard (the best candidates are Ambassador Laquatus or the Flamewave Invoker). Once both creatures (the Dragon and one of the aforementioned creatures) are in the graveyard, you target the Worldgorger Dragon with an Animate Dead spell (it must be an enchantment. Necromancy works too. The other spell of choice is Dance of the Dead). Due to the Worldgorger Dragon's ability, it causes all other permanents of yours to essentially "phase" out, including the Animate Enchantment. In response to the trigger, you tap any and all remaining lands and "float the mana". Now, since the Animate Enchantment that was keeping the Dragon alive is now gone, the Dragon must leave play and go the graveyard. As a result, all of your permanents removed by the Dragon come back into play, untapped, and able to target all new targets... including the Animate Enchantment. Target the Dragon over and over again with the Animate Enchantment, all the while pumping tons and tons of mana into your mana pool. Once you've filled up, go ahead and switch your target from Worldgorger Dragon to either the Ambassador or the Invoker for the kill. The reason this Combo is fragile is that falls victim to instant removal spells and graveyard destruction both. Overall though, it's still a pretty solid combo... especially now that you don't have to worry about being destroyed by your own inability to use up all of your mana from the combo. Hope that helps my man.
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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    Actually the best target these days is Oona, Queen of the Fae.
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      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2009
     
    [quote=Dipstik]Actually the best target these days is Oona, Queen of the Fae.[/quote] Good call. I always forget that bitch.
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    Ahh, okay - Worldgorger Dragon. I understand completely now. Sounds cool enough; although you're right in that it fizzles out to enchantment, creature, or graveyard removal (or bounce, for that matter). Although with Necromancy it can be done at instant speed. I'll give it a thought. It's only two cards (The Dragon plus whichever critter I want to use). Incidentally, any 187 creature would do just fine here. Instead of floating mana and milling someone or whatever, I can have a Ghitu Slinger in play when the Dragon does his dance. Then every iteration is 2 damage. Or 1 dead land with Avalanche Riders. Or 3 Damage with Triskelon. I might just go this route, as I was considering some toolbox-creatures like this anyway. Then I can use some other creature that is actually useful w/o the combo. Sounds good so far.
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      CommentAuthord.shivley
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    [quote=radicaleucalyptus]Okay, I have previously mentioned that I am just coming back to the game, and I wanted to put a 5-color back together. Now, I am on a bit of a budget, and I am not too sure what level of proxying I want to do in my local environment, so we'll see about that.[/quote] Dunno where in town you're playing, but most of the locals I've played games with proxy stuff up... either from laziness or having cards shoved in their t2 deck or whatever. Well, except for Phil... but he's a special case.
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      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    @Radicaleucalyptus: Yeah, you can do that too. Although I've found (and this is through the actual play of Worldgorger Dragon) that it's hard to depend on keeping that creature in play until you can execute the combo. Especially if you don't have all the combo pieces readily available, making that call to chump block Tarmogoyf seems right, but screws you in the end. The graveyard edition that I outlined is the most recommended, especially with Oona. As for 187 creatures with the Worldgorger combo, a highly underappreciated setup is Wall of Blossoms into a huge Stroke of Genius (Flicker the Wall to keep drawing cards while pumping mana into your pool until you come across a Stroke to kill your opponent with). It doesn't happen often, but it's won me a game or two.
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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    I once had to go off by flickering an eternal witness and responding by casting brainstorm, regrowing the brainstorm to dig one card deeper each time.
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    JD.5: Yeah, the Wall of Blossoms did seem like a good one, and I've got those in the tentative decklist already. Banefire would work, too. Seems like I am going to need Worldgorger + Oona for the "official combo", but there will be times where I can pull it off with an Avalanche Riders or Ghitu Slinger or Wall of Blossoms + X spell or something. I am likely including those critters anyway, so it shouldn't be too tough. Are these Split Second spells as good as they seem? I have never played with one, but the thought of killing a Psychatog with Sudden Shock, or blowing a Tormod's Crypt with Krosan Grip seems awesome.
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      CommentAuthord.shivley
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2009
     
    For a while, sudden shock was amazing... then all of a sudden it seemed like people quit playing 2 power guys, but krosan grip is still very good at what it does [uncounterably destroying things like pernicious deed, t.crypt, relic, etched oracle, etc...]. I'm actually kind of surprised that in your reanimate-a-fatty/citp-guy plan that there's no [url=http://magiccards.info/shm/en/135.html]Woodfall Primus[/url] or [url=http://magiccards.info/di/en/86.html]Indrik Stomphowler[/url] in your list.
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    @ Shivley: Those are not bad at all. The Primus is especially nice. I think the Stomphowler is a way to go, but I might have to see how many slots I save for toolbox cratures like him.