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    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2013 edited
    I just picked 5 Color back up after an extended (since like 2003) break. A couple friends are building decks and below is what I'm thinking about fielding. I want it to be a powerful Aggro-Control deck playing the best aggro-control creatures printed + a few to maintain card advantage (think Ranger of Eos). Its based on a deck I found on a different forum that list played more Ophidian-type creatures. However, I don't want to play things like Scroll Thief/Ophidian. The only Ophidian-type creature I'm not playing that I wish I could find room for is Ohran Viper.

    Also, it seems like I'm playing more lands than many lists on these forums. I like to play a healthy amount of lands and it seems 17/40 (42.5%) or 24/60 (40%) is pretty standard. I'm playing 114 (mana sources) / 300 (38%) which I think is reasonably healthy. Any thoughts?

    So, 5 Color community, any suggestions? Or any creatures that I've overlooked?

    I also wanted to ask, but not sure if it deserves its own thread: are the old 5 color forums unavailable? I found a thread about the old forums but the link didn't work. Thanks!

    Red: (25)
    4 Grim Lavamancer
    4 Kird Ape

    4 Boros Charm
    4 Fire/Ice
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Lightning Helix
    1 Ancient Grudge

    Black: (33)
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Shadowmage Infiltrator

    4 Abrupt Decay
    4 Duress
    4 Maelstrom Pulse
    4 Thoughtseize
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Yawgmoth's Will

    White: (28)
    4 Kitchen Finks
    4 Knight of the Reliquary
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Ranger of Eos
    4 Stoneforge Mystic

    4 Path to Exile
    4 Swords to Plowshares

    Green: (26)
    4 Nimble Mongoose
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Skyshroud Elite
    4 Tarmogoyf
    4 Vengevine
    4 Wild Nacatl
    1 Eternal Witness

    1 Survival of the Fittest

    Blue: (63)
    4 Court Hussar
    4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Trinket Mage
    4 Vendilion Clique

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Counterspell
    4 Cryptic Command
    4 Evasive Action
    4 Force of Will
    4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Ponder
    4 Remand
    4 Submerge
    1 Ancestral Recall
    1 Merchant Scroll
    1 Time Walk

    Artifacts: (11)
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Skullclamp
    1 Batterskull
    1 Isochron Scepter
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Lands + Mana Artifacts (114) :
    4 Flooded Strand
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Wooded Foothills
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Marsh Flats

    4 Bayou
    4 Savannah
    4 Taiga
    4 Tropical Island
    4 Tundra
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Volcanic Island
    4 Badlands
    4 Plateau
    4 Scrubland

    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Watery Grave
    1 Hallowed Fountain

    4 Celestial Colonnade
    4 Horizon Canopy
    4 Stirring Wildwood
    4 Wasteland
    2 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Library of Alexandria
    1 Stripmine

    1 Black Lotus
    1 Mox Emerald
    1 Mox Jet
    1 Mox Pearl
    1 Mox Ruby
    1 Mox Sapphire
    1 Mana Vault
    1 Sol Ring

    3 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    • CommentTimeApr 17th 2013
    I run about that many mana sources, but then again, I'm running full-on control without any aggro beaters like Kird Ape or Nacatl. Just value men. I think you could trim the manasources quite a bit, and it's a little weird that you're running things like Nacatl with Ninja. I'd probably try to smooth out whether you want value from your dudes or beat sticks. That way your decisions mid-late game get far less awkward and gawky like a teen at the prom.
    Oh, and don't feel stuck to running all 40 duals if you're spamming blue and another color harder than the rest. I'd try to make room for Aven Mindcensor if you can, because that guy's almost always value and then some.
    • CommentTimeApr 18th 2013 edited
    After playing a few sets of games, I definitely feel the awkwardness of Ninja of the Deep Hours. In the games I played, I consistently drew Ninja of the Deep Hours and bouncing a Kird Ape just isn't a great feeling. It draws you a card, but many times I couldn't replay the Kird Ape and lost a lot of forward pressure. I put it in there because I wanted to rebuy things like Stoneforge Mystic and Ranger of Eos but I was never actually able to get value from the return.

    The deck didn't perform as well as I would have hoped. I played against a deck much like the Turboland Abundance deck posted on this forum, which is pretty much completely non-interactive in combat and many cards (Swords, Path, Submerge) are practically dead. My draws and my draw steps weren't particularly killer but I was able to get him to 1 life in two games before the game was ripped from my finger tips. If I could have ripped a direct damage spell, I could have won one of the games. However, Zuran Orb all but sealed the deal in the other.

    I'm also feeling the need for a little graveyard hate. Moment's Peace and Darkblast/Sylvan Library were enough to put some games out of my reach.

    I actually really like Aven Mindcensor and tried to find room for him. I'll definitely have to give him a shot. He would be extremely good against the Turboland Abundance deck. I might actually cut Stoneforge Mystic for it. I don't think she's actually that good in a deck full of Kird Ape type creatures. Stoneforge Mystic would be GREAT in a more controlling list. I was mostly using to cheat in a Batterskull vs a more aggressive decks or Jitte vs decks that want to interact in combat, but my friends simply haven't been playing those type of decks. I'm playing decks where I need to be the aggressor, so taking the time to flop a equipment into play is actually detrimental.
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2013 edited
    Stoneforge is always great. I'd say keep the Batterskull just in case you run into Burn, but really it gets Skullclamp, which is what you always go for with an aggressive deck. I think cards like Deathrite and Noble Hierarch are more control-y, as they ramp you up into bigger control spells, whereas all you want in aggro are Jungle Lions and Skyshroud War Beasts - actually prob not the Beast. And find ways to max out your burn, too, like Sudden Shock. I think there's another good burn spell out there, probably Incinerate, so that your games go:

    T1 Dude
    T2 Dude Dude
    T3 Goyf, Clamp
    T4 Get Moated, don't care because you have 6+ burn in hand to finish the game

    So I'd say just hunt down as many undercosted guys as you can, and run heavy aggro. Even Savannah Lions should be considered (and Isamaru). Cheat out Blue and maybe Black if you can; if not, Trinket Mage also gets Skullclamp.

    EDIT: Steelshaper's Gift also gets clamp, and you should probably make room for it too.
    • CommentTimeJun 25th 2013
    Have you thought of running Entomb's for Anger, Wonder, and other such stuff?

    Also, say what you will, but Skyshroud Warbeast really isn't that bad. It's a two drop that is most likely going to grow by the turn. I mean, I think he's just fine and I personally enjoy his company.

    Also, for Graveyard hate, try out Scavenging Ooze. That guy does things and those things are nice.

    Don't cut Stoneforge, she really is boss.

    What about running some sort of Green Sun's Zenith package and including Edric, Spymaster of Trest, therefore you don't have to worry about playing Ninja of the Deep Hours (if you don't want to) and you can run other utility guys like Qasali Pridemage as one of's, making room for Aven Mindcensor? I used to run Edric as a one-of and he always seemed great. Even if he rips you one additional card he was worth it since he must be answered.

    If it is creature buyback for further progress you are looking for, is Deputy of Acquittals worth it? At worst he is a crap-costed bear but he could be great for saving dudes, reusing their abilities, or anything else I can't think of...

    Is Price of Progress just not worth it for you? I mean, yeah, you crack yourself pretty nicely but by that point you should be winning, right?

    Oh, and Trinket Mage is your D.Top target... no need to run that as a gruesome 4-of.

    And last but not least... WHERE IS THE CONTRACT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
    • CommentTimeJun 26th 2013
    Follow JD on all this but Deputy. I'd probably just make the deck 123 aggro or something, just so you're consistent. Deputy I don't think is powerful enough for aggro or control. Unless you did Reveillark... but that's too narrow.
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2013
    Posted By: frogger42Follow JD on all this but Deputy. I'd probably just make the deck 123 aggro or something, just so you're consistent. Deputy I don't think is powerful enough for aggro or control. Unless you did Reveillark... but that's too narrow.

    Fair enough, I was only looking for an alternative to Ninja for creature re-usability.
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2013
    Oh, and I was also thinking...

    Is Boros Charm really that great?

    Don't laugh, but I've actually really enjoyed running Warleader's Helix (obviously with the O.G. busted one). It's a solid amount of swing for the price. Might be worth a shot for you as another way to keep control yet break face or larger dudes.