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      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2012 edited
     
    Happy 4th to the Forum. Here's a 321 Aggro build from my stable. Comments are always welcome.

    Updated: 7/4/12 9:45pm PST

    Red: 92
    4 Goblin Guide
    4 Jackal Pup
    4 Kird Ape
    4 Goblin Cadets
    4 Mogg Conscripts
    4 Goblin Cohort
    4 Goblin Patrol
    4 Tin Street Hooligan
    4 Scab-Clan Mauler
    4 Burning-Tree Shaman
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Rift Bolt
    4 Firebolt
    4 Seal of Fire
    4 Reckless Charge
    4 Magma Jet
    4 Incinerate
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Searing Spear
    4 Tribal Flames
    4 Price of Progress
    4 Fireblast

    Green: 40
    4 Wild Nacatl
    4 Jungle Lion
    4 Wild Dogs
    4 Pouncing Jaguar
    4 Uktabi Drake
    4 Skyshroud Elite
    4 Hidden Herd
    4 Joiner Adept
    4 Wild Mongrel
    4 Rancor

    White: 36
    4 Savannah Lions
    4 Elite Vanguard
    4 Loam Lion
    4 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
    4 Jotun Grunt
    4 Kami of Ancient Law
    4 Watchwolf
    4 Kataki, War's Wage
    4 Lightning Helix

    Black: 25
    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Diregraf Ghoul
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Carnophage
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Contract from Below
    R Demonic Tutor

    Blue: 25
    3 Sapphire Leech
    4 Sea Drake
    4 Cloud Spirit
    4 Rishadan Airship
    4 Fire/Ice
    4 Psionic Blast
    R Time Walk
    R Ancestral Recall

    Artifacts: 3
    Mox Emerald
    Mox Ruby
    Mox Jet

    Lands: 79
    Fetches and Duals
    4 Wasteland
    R Strip Mine

    Possibles: VT, Consult, , Stormblood Berserker, Sol Ring, Lightning Mauler, Aven Mindcensor, Serendib Efreet, Stromkirk Noble, Slith Firewalker, Strangleroot Giest, Scythe Tiger, Mogg Fanatic, Flinthoof Boar, Thalia, Gaddock Teeg
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2012
     
    I think cheating your U and B requs is usually the best aggro plan. GRW zoo is purdy consistent and absolutely devastating, and cutting 2 colors helps your manabase out a ton. (No more janky Joiner Adept!) This deck doesn't need to blow out w/Contracts, dropping 1-2 dudes a turn will do that easily enough, just make sure your manabase allows you to do that.
    If you absolutely 'need' the 5 colors, Trinket Mage + Stoneforge Mystic -> Skullclamp. I haven't heard of half the U beats here, power creep over the last 5 years should give you a ton more contenders than these guys.
    Where's Goyf? Even Knight of the Reliquary does some good work for you. Check out Legacy Zoo lists, Loam Lion and Goblin Guide should be here too (you'll figure out Guide doesn't actually have a drawback) and Green Sun's Zenith is posb here, as +1 mana gets all your serious beaters when you need them. Also: Chain Lightning, Fireblast, max out on all the quality(ish) burn you can, reach is a demon to control. Char and Psi Blast are too slow when it comes to burn. There's the new awful Incinerate in M13, and even Thunderbolt seems better than some of this stuff.
    And drop all the 'sac a land' spells, makes you up your land count and mess with your consistency when it comes to playing money spells. Better off with a 2/1 for W than a boltable Elephant that 2-for-1s you right away + shrinks your Nacatls. No need to give your opponent a free Wasteland (or Time Walk) if you can help it, you're soft enough to it.
  1.  
    Posted By: frogger42I think cheating your U and B requs is usually the best aggro plan. GRW zoo is purdy consistent and absolutely devastating, and cutting 2 colors helps your manabase out a ton. (No more janky Joiner Adept!) This deck doesn't need to blow out w/Contracts, dropping 1-2 dudes a turn will do that easily enough, just make sure your manabase allows you to do that.


    Joiner Adept is one of the weaker cards in the deck for sure. The price paid for consistency. If she goes out, she'll be standing close to the sidelines in case I start losing to my mana.


    If you absolutely 'need' the 5 colors, Trinket Mage + Stoneforge Mystic -> Skullclamp. I haven't heard of half the U beats here, power creep over the last 5 years should give you a ton more contenders than these guys.


    A miser's Skullclamp is a good call, but going to pass on the Mage and Stoneforge for this deck. No tricks, just want to get power on the board and turn sideways. The disruption is inherent in cards like Kami of the Ancient Law, Tin Street, and Kataki (Kataki is a big time beating).

    Posted By: frogger42
    Where's Goyf? Even Knight of the Reliquary does some good work for you. Check out Legacy Zoo lists, Loam Lion and Goblin Guide should be here too (you'll figure out Guide doesn't actually have a drawback) and Green Sun's Zenith is posb here, as +1 mana gets all your serious beaters when you need them.


    Yeah I missed Kird Ape and Loam Lion. Those both go straight in.

    Posted By: frogger42
    Also: Chain Lightning, Fireblast, max out on all the quality(ish) burn you can, reach is a demon to control. Char and Psi Blast are too slow when it comes to burn. There's the new awful Incinerate in M13, and even Thunderbolt seems better than some of this stuff.


    Had to look that one up. Searing Spear. Nice. That's definitely going in upon release. Chain Lightning is going in for Shard Volley. Psi Blast has to be near the top of the list for a blue card - it kills those 0/4 walls dead. No thanks on Thunderbolt.

    Posted By: frogger42
    And drop all the 'sac a land' spells, makes you up your land count and mess with your consistency when it comes to playing money spells. Better off with a 2/1 for W than a boltable Elephant that 2-for-1s you right away + shrinks your Nacatls. No need to give your opponent a free Wasteland (or Time Walk) if you can help it, you're soft enough to it.


    Cutting Rogue Elephant.
  2.  
    Update:

    -4 Shard Volley
    -4 Rogue Elephant
    -4 Dauthi Horror
    -4 Wretched Anurid

    +4 Kird Ape
    +4 Loam Lion
    +4 Elite Vanguard
    +4 Chain Lightning
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2012
     

    Where's arma-mutha-geddon? Get that shit in there.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2012
     
    4 Jackal Pup
    4 Goblin Cadets
    4 Mogg Conscripts
    4 Goblin Cohort
    4 Goblin Patrol
    4 Scab-Clan Mauler
    4 Volcanic Hammer
    4 Sudden Shock
    2 Char

    Green: 44
    4 Ghazban Ogre
    4 Wild Dogs
    4 Pouncing Jaguar
    4 Uktabi Drake
    4 Blurred Mongoose
    4 Wild Mongrel

    White: 36
    4 Kami of Ancient Law (do people play worldgorger dragon near you?)

    Black: 25
    4 Gravecrawler
    4 Diregraf Ghoul
    4 Sarcomancy
    4 Carnophage
    4 Dauthi Horror

    Blue: 25
    4 Sapphire Leech
    4 Cloud Spirit
    4 Rishadan Airship

    Some of these cards have never been playable, but most of them have not been playable since 2001 or so. The fact that you're not playing dark confident or armageddon means you haven't put a lot of thought into this.
  3.  
    Dark Confidant's omission was a typo error. It's in the actual deckfile. Went through and as I was taking out Dauthi Horror for the update I took out Dark Confidant instead.

    Clearly we disagree on playable vs. not playable. I've seen the Echo and Must-play-a-guy-to-attack guys in action and they present a real quick clock in a deck like this.

    Geddon is the elephant in the room. They need to play a blocker or removal by turn 4 and if they don't, they die. Geddon doesn't help pose the question any better (sitting uncastable until 4), but if they do have answers (often tapping out to do so), then Geddon punishes them.

    Leaving it out wasn't an oversight, I just flat out didn't think it was necessary.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2012
     
    Dip - the zomboids seem okay here. Two power for 1, it's roughly what he's got in other colors. However, you're adding black and most of those slots are worse beaters than in your other colors (Jungle Lion? there's other jank to scrounge up yet). Unless this color's really bonkers, and 8 slots out of 300 isn't enough, just cheat it.
    Dip's totally right on the echo'ers here. I am super-happy to see you tempo yourself on a 2-mana 2/2 (I think they call that a Grizzly Bear) esp when I have a bolt. Your threats have to come out as fast and consistently as they can, and it may seem minor, but in actuality echo really f-s that up for you.
    Clamp is how you win. Not dudes. Clamp. It's brutal.
    Geddon + Red Geddon + Blood Moon and Dude Moon are fine here, too. It's not overkill, it's "let's start the game over again, except you're at 8." Or "gee, you need how many more lands for WoG?" Much easier to run when you cut down to 3 colors, hint hint.
    And Aether Vial. No reason not to, it's a great way to flash out a dude and not over extend into the WoG/ Firespout. I don't think it's worth going up to CMC 3 with this deck (which helps Vial), except maybe for KotR. Who also rocks with Geddons.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: frogger42However, you're adding black and most of those slots are worse beaters than in your other colors (Jungle Lion? there's other jank to scrounge up yet). Unless this color's really bonkers, and 8 slots out of 300 isn't enough, just cheat it.


    The latest update went down to 25 Blue and 25 Black like you suggested and it's gotten more streamlined because of it. Nice call.

    You're welcome for the tech.

    Posted By: frogger42
    Dip's totally right on the echo'ers here. I am super-happy to see you tempo yourself on a 2-mana 2/2 (I think they call that a Grizzly Bear) esp when I have a bolt. Your threats have to come out as fast and consistently as they can, and it may seem minor, but in actuality echo really f-s that up for you.


    Who plays the echo guy on turn 1? The goal is 6 power by end of turn 2 with the opp on 18. I'm fine with paying into turn 3 to be able to do that consistently.

    Posted By: frogger42Clamp is how you win. Not dudes. Clamp. It's brutal.


    Come on. You're better than this.

    Posted By: frogger42Geddon + Red Geddon + Blood Moon and Dude Moon are fine here, too. It's not overkill, it's "let's start the game over again, except you're at 8." Or "gee, you need how many more lands for WoG?" Much easier to run when you cut down to 3 colors, hint hint..


    Those cards are S-L-O-W.

    Posted By: frogger42
    And Aether Vial. No reason not to, it's a great way to flash out a dude and not over extend into the WoG/ Firespout. I don't think it's worth going up to CMC 3 with this deck (which helps Vial), except maybe for KotR. Who also rocks with Geddons.


    So many tricks, so little beatdown.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJul 5th 2012
     
    You're really bad at this. I don't think you even play 5-color.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2012
     
    Fine. I tried reasoning with you. The Legacy season's over here, so HMU for some 5-C this afternoon. You'll be begging for Geddon.
    And crying for Clamp. I honestly don't understand how you don't play the most broken card in the game. 1x Clamp > 1x Ancestral + 1x Contract. It's maybe on par with Black Lotus.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2012
     
    Wow. I had NO IDEA that Rish Airship and Goblin Cohort were really that bad. I mean... yeah. You can kinda tell by looking at the cards, but when you see them in play, they just stink up like nothing else. Prob stink worse than Ill-G's now-desecrated grandmother, may she never play a Cohort in her life.

    I mean, to be honest, real aggro should take my control at least 60% of the time. I played against Cheaty Red to maybe 20% wins, prob less: need the total nuts to make it past T5. Back to the drawing board, huh?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2012
     
    Wow. I had NO IDEA that Rish Airship and Goblin Cohort were really that bad. I mean... yeah. You can kinda tell by looking at the cards, but when you see them in play, they just stink up like nothing else. Prob stink worse than Ill-G's now-desecrated grandmother, may she never play a Cohort in her life.

    I mean, to be honest, real aggro should take my control at least 60% of the time. I played against Cheaty Red to maybe 20% wins, prob less: need the total nuts to make it past T5. Back to the drawing board, huh?
  4.  
    I like'd how you loaded up CreatureRemoval.dec to play me. I think I saw Innocent Blood and Go For The Throat during a Future Sight turn...

    In Game 1, You had: Lightning Bolt, Helix, Snapcaster Mage, Mindcensor, then Ooze for the cleanup, and I still would have had it if not for the play error. I got janked out by not playing Seal of Fire before attacking (old old old mistake, one of the oldest in the book) which allowed snappy to block cadets - sad face.

    In Game 2, you had THE PERFECT Balance hand with Turn 2 Mind Stone Turn 3 VT for Balance. I actually had the Strip Mine to stop it but you ALSO had Strip Mine so I stripped the strip to try and not get mana screwed.

    You played around Price of Progress nicely in one of the last games to allow a victory. One of the things about volley and rogue elephant is I can get further ahead with PoP, but alas I was swayed by popular opinion and cut them.

    The truth about this morning was that I lost to my mana and maaaaybe it's Ghazban Ogre OR Wild Dogs, not both.

    Also now want something like Hearth Kami because sometimes a guy just needs to Shatter things.

    The deck can handle the expected removal like STP and Fire/Ice but when you start getting dedicated like Lightning Bolt, Helix, AJANI FREAKIN VENGENT, then yeah it makes sense to throttle back and play some disruption.
  5.  
    Posted By: frogger42Wow. I had NO IDEA that Rish Airship and Goblin Cohort were really that bad.


    Rishadan Airship won a Pro Tour. Cloud Spirit was awesome mirror tech the year before. Just be happy it's not Troublesome Spirit knockin' on that front door.

    Goblin Cohort is beating. It's one of the best Turn 1 drops in the deck. You want to try and tell me Goblin Guide doesn't have a drawback? Pshh.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 8th 2012
     
    Guide doesn't. 60% it gives you info, the rest of the time it gives your opp an irrellevant card. It's the 2nd best 1 drop in legacy, and honestly not that far behind Delver. Nacatls a distant 3rd, not all that close.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2012
     

    Wait, no geddon and no clamp? I'm with dips here.

    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 9th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Illusions-Go</cite>AJANI FREAKIN VENGENT...</blockquote>

    Yeah, he's good too. I tend to play good cards, you noticed?
  6.  
    @Frogger42

    Fun times let's run it back sometime.
  7.  
    7/9/2012 Update:

    +4 Searing Spear
    +4 Goblin Guide
    +4 Joiner Adept
    +1 Psionic Blast
    +2 Lands

    -4 Sudden Shock
    -4 Ghazban Ogre
    -4 Blurred Mongoose
    -1 Sapphire Leach
    -2 Char
  8.  
    Posted By: Illusions-GoAlso now want something like Hearth Kami because sometimes a guy just needs to Shatter things.

    I meant Torch Fiend, yeah Torch Fiend. That's the ticket.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2012
     
    He' s not running tarmogoyf either, but I didn't bother looking very deep. Since he's running about 60 or so cards that are absolute shit, it's probable that there are at least 30 or so cards that are obviously missing. Illusions-go should have his own sub-forum for shit decks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2012
     
    Tarmogoyf? That piece of crap? I think I'm coming at this the wrong way, it's time to suggest a different slew of cards:
    Skyshroud Ridgeback should do it fer ya. Even Skyshroud Behemoth is a beating.
    Aboroth fits your curve better, tho. Feed the counters to your Chisei ftw.
    I think I'm in love with Eternal Dragon for this deck, btw. FYI no one ever lost a game by cycling Decree of Justice. Temporal Mastery, anyone?
  9.  
    Temporal Mastery? Guess you haven't seen the Palinchron deck I'm buiding. LOL Manaflare, Chron, Fireball FTW.

    Aggro is a beating. I'm attacking 8 power through a Knight of the Reliquery all day!
  10.  
    Posted By: frogger42Skyshroud Ridgeback should do it fer ya. Even Skyshroud Behemoth is a beating.


    Skyshroud Ridgeback: nice!
  11.  
    How about Rushwood Legate?

    That's a spicy meatball!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2012 edited
     
    Iggy, I've been playing since revised. I may not know every card, but I know enough at this point not to bother figuring out what Rushwood Legate even does.

    Have you considered Pearled Unicorn? (Shut up Dip.) Grey Ogre also gives consistency in red for that, Treasure Mage in blue.

    EDIT: And don't spoil that surprise either.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2012 edited
     
    ____ Double Post
  12.  
    For how close-minded you are, you could have been playing since the Dark Ages and not gotten further than barning Starcity for the latest Standard list.

    EDIT: So, did the Legate deliver?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2012
     
    Hey! The gloves come off, huh? The last time I played standard was some weird 3-man team. I was running some Gruul deck and it sucked. And Starcity loves me. And G-Fabs, that guy. He's got a poster of me up. Seriously.

    I won't take this lying down. Cloud Spirit > Serendib???
    Skullclamp.
    Stoneforge.
    Skullclamp Skullclamp. Skuuuuuuuuullclaaaaaaaaamp!!!

    *crosses two sticks*
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeAug 21st 2012 edited
     
    "Thou shall not pass!" ???

    hahahaha

    Serendib is a fine card.

    The reason it's not in there is because you can only run so much "damage yourself" cards before it starts backfiring often.

    I mean, Flesh Reaver is a cool card in this archtype too.

    Skullclamp is probably good enough........................................::<(flamesuit="On")>)::
  13.  
    Revisions to this build are in the works considering RTR and the printing of:

    1) Rackdos Cackler

    2) Dryad Militant