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    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2012 edited
     
    5C Heads!

    Comments are always welcome, enjoy.

    **Updated 10/12/12**

    Red: 25
    4 Squee Goblin Nabob
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Avalanche Riders
    4 FTK
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Dwarven Miner
    1 Ancient Grudge
    R Gamble

    White: 25
    4 Eladamri's Call
    4 Lingering Souls
    4 Armageddon
    3 Wall of Omens
    3 Sunscape Familiar
    2 STP
    2 Steelshaper's Gift
    1 War Priest of Thune
    1 Ray of Revelation
    R ET

    Black: 25
    4 Contract
    4 Duress
    4 Nightscape Familiar
    4 Ravenous Rats
    4 Nezumi Shortfang
    1 Buried Alive
    1 Okiba Gang Shinobi
    R DT
    R VT
    R Seal

    Green: 40
    4 Birds of Paradise
    4 Llanowar Elves
    4 Noble Hierarch
    4 Basking Rootwalla
    4 Fauna Shaman
    4 Wild Mongrel
    4 Uktabi Orangutan
    4 Awakening
    4 Seedborn Muse
    1 Genesis
    R Eternal Witness
    R Regrowth
    R Survival of the Fittest

    Blue: 64
    4 Merfolk Looter
    4 Waterfront Bouncer
    4 Snapcaster Mage
    4 Trinket Mage
    4 Man'o'war
    4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
    4 Tradewind Rider
    4 FoW
    4 Evasive Action
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Whispers of the Muse
    4 Capsize
    4 Gilded Drake
    2 Phantasmal Image
    R Walk
    R Ancestral
    R Mystical
    R Personal
    R Merchant
    R Intuition

    Artifact: 23
    4 J.Bird
    4 Mind Stone
    3 Top
    2 Jitte
    1 Aether Spellbomb
    R Skullclamp
    5 Moxen
    R Mox Crystal
    R Lotus
    R Ring

    Lands: 98
    36 Fetch (20 Old + Misty, Scalding, Catacombs, and Flats)
    37 Dual (16 Blue, 4 Bay, 4 Sav, 3 Bad, 4 Scrub, 4 Tai, 2 Plat)
    7 Island
    4 Wasteland
    4 Drowned Catacomb
    4 Breeding Pool
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    R LoA
    R Strip
  1.  
    Primer:

    Turns 1 and 2: Play a Looter, Werebear, Nightscape, Rat, or Bouncer.

    Turns 3 and 4: Intuition or Buried Alive for 3 Squees or some combination of Genesis, Wonder, and Squee with counter backup.

    Turns 5 and 6: Kick a Thunderscape or Probe at their face or "Clear the Way with FTK" and burn while applying beatdown.

    Turns 7 and 8: Continue Squee Recursion, Madness out Things, Discard Squees to Spellshapers and Looters, Gift up a Clamp or Jitte and go nuts. Tutor for and cast Survival of the Fittest...etc.

    Turns 9 and 10: If somehow they've stabilized, setup Upheaval into Tog and/or Mongeese and/or Werebear. When they try to Plow the Tog, have the Circular Logic for it.

    End.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2012
     
    If you're playing buried alive on turn 3, expect to cast something better on turn 4 or you're already dead.
  2.  
    Opponent: "I have a response."

    This deck: "Right, but do you have any blocks"

    Opponent: "No, but Fire your Rat and Loo.."

    This deck: "Hiii Yah. Eat a Phid with a side of Ninja Star"

    Opponent: "::Cries::"
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    In your fantasy scenario, you're assuming that they had a blocker for your ravenous rats (else why mention it?) but didn't block, and they waited until after blockers to cast their fire?

    You don't play against goldfish, you play against straw men.
  3.  
    In a patient mood today, so I'll explain the svg bait play...

    They don't need on-table blockers for it to work, there are such things as flash creatures and instants that make guys...so 1) it's a relevant question no matter what and 2) the play is baiting them to answer the question and thus advancing past "Declare Blockers" before firing the stuff away (so that Ninjutsu can work). It's called being tricky. Welcome to Magic.

    The reason it's Rats is because that's just one of the cards in the deck that's nice to pick up (with Ninjutsu) and play again.

    Dip, when is your computer getting fixed so we can MWS it up?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    My comment wasn't arguing that your play was impossible, just incredibly implausible. You set up a perfect hypothetical opponent and then blow the absolute living shit out of him. That's called a "straw man argument." That will never happen in real life. Ever.

    My computer's been fixed for a long time, but I never re-installed MWS. Getting patch updates had gotten to be such a pain that I was at least two sets behind and playing proxies for any new cards I needed.
  4.  
    Oh, it happens and it's a beating every time. Seen it with my own eyes at a PTQ.

    Sadly it's a once a match type thing. Ya know,

    "You can shear a sheep many times, but skin him only once."

    What do you think about Basking Rootwalla, Wild Mongrel, or Quiron Dryad in this deck?

    They were all potentials and were in previous versions/goldfishes.

    I think Quiron Dryad is hella good in 5C, but she's not so good with Upheaval.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2012
     
    I have no opinion on how to improve this deck.
  5.  
    Updated for Memorial Day Weekend...

    How about Lingering Souls, Awakening, and Opposition?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeMay 27th 2012
     
    The "Straw Golem" argument? He seems like a strong choice in the deck.
    I've always been a fan of CiP dudes, but I think the stronger backup is MORE NINJAS. Running things like FTK and even Fire Imp seems like the best ways to go full-out NINJASTORM with this deck, and I feel that when you bounce with a Ninja, you 1. don't pitch a card to Bouncer 2. Still have a body (ninja) on the field that needs to be dealt with this turn or blocked next. The best use I've found for Squee is to get him stuck in your opening hand, have your opponent Blood Moon you, and then go 'aha, I DO have a blocker for your 4/4 Figure of Destiny.' He's actually kind of cool to Entomb, iff you have Survival in play/ in hand and your opponent doesn't run counters.

    More ninja advice - Man-o-War? There's the new flying one for UU2, though that seems just too slow. Most likely FTKs and burn should be enough to sneak a ninja in. And psych the f- out of your opponent, dress like a ninja if need be.
    Solemn Sim always looked like a hidden ninja to me.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: frogger42The best use I've found for Squee is to get him stuck in your opening hand, have your opponent Blood Moon you, and then go 'aha, I DO have a blocker for your 4/4 Figure of Destiny.


    You can do better.

    Posted By: frogger42More ninja advice - Man-o-War? There's the new flying one for UU2, though that seems just too slow. Most likely FTKs and burn should be enough to sneak a ninja in.


    Good advice. Yeah good ol' Man o War might end up getting in there.

    What about these:

    Tin Street Hooligan

    Mageta Teh Lion.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJun 5th 2012
     
    Terastodon always seemed like a ninja to me.

    Emrakul always seemed like a ninja to me.

    (in response to 'Mageta the Total Freaking PoS CSMFW...')
  6.  
    Updated on 6/17.

    Becoming more about Tradewind now with 8 ways to get him and a bunch of CITP guys and mana accelerators.

    Squee is still feeding Looters, Mongrels, Probes, and of course, Survival.

    Upped Armageddon and added Awakening to go for the Tradewind Lock.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJun 18th 2012
     
    I think Madness is prob more efficient to do than Squee. Not to say Squee isn't also useful here, but you prob get more out of the tempo you're spending by dropping things that pay off more immediately - Basking Rootwalla, other madness spells. I'd suggest trying more Madness cards (there's a cantrip, plus a really awesome Gravedigger) -> this would give you more incentive to run 4x Psychatog, and up the Upheaval count too. So your deck can run two strategies - accumulate CA with the normal board plan, or blow out problem decks w/ 'Tog and Heave it all. I think either direction would make your deck faster and more efficient.
    Or do a tonna Ninjas. They also give CA and a board presence at the same time. It'd also make you happy to run a ton of Wraths and Akroma's Vengeances, all your dudes on the board would've given you value anyway.
  7.  
    A ton'a ninjas is not very ninja-like. ;)

    You're right its on the slow side, which I was trying to combat with Anger (the Magic card).

    Phid/Shadowmage/Cutpurse may just be all around too slow for 5C, but Deep Hours is probably good enough.

    Mistblade Shinobi COULD be a beating.

    Mageta is an awesome card, but I think its too slow, fragile, and just not good in many matchups.

    The next cut is -

    -4 Shadowmage
    +4 Man'oWar

    -4 Werebear
    +4 ?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2012
     
    "Mistblade Shinobi COULD be a beating.

    Mageta is an awesome card, but I think its too slow, fragile, and just not good in many matchups."

    I'm wondering... if you guys keep going back and forth, how long will it be before one of you suggests running pearled unicorn?
  8.  
    Posted By: frogger42Or do a tonna Ninjas.


    This is problematic because outside of Deep Hours, Mistblade, and Okiba-Gang, the ninjas aren't really playable in 5.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2012
     
    "This is problematic because ... the ninjas aren't really playable in 5."

    FIFY
  9.  
    Updated for 6/25...

    -4 Shadowmage
    +4 Mano'War

    I want for the creatures to come down and have an immediate effect. CiP creatures and ManoWar are better than another Phid in a deck that's going for Tradewind (the Phids are already tapped from attacking). A deck with more counters would better appreciate Shadowmage.

    Probe seems to be a solid threat against control decks. I Ancestral, we each discard 2, but I pick mine back up at upkeep (Squee).
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Dipstik</cite>

    I'm wondering... if you guys keep going back and forth, how long will it be before one of you suggests running pearled unicorn?</blockquote>

    HEY. Now that's just insulting.
    Ever thought about running Storm Crow + Keeper of the Nine Gales?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2012
     
    Yeah, well I'm pretty sure either of my ante decks could beat this pile consistently.
  10.  
    Posted By: DipstikYeah, well I'm pretty sure either of my ante decks could beat this pile consistently.


    Go find another dick to suck on, chump.
  11.  
    Posted By: frogger42Ever thought about running Storm Crow + Keeper of the Nine Gales


    Suntail Hawk, Squadron Hawk, Welkin Hawk, Battle Screech, Ordered Migration, Keeper'o the Nines?

    Pretty sure KotNG is unplayable - too narrow/Bird's aren't good enough.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2012
     
    Posted By: Illusions-Go
    Posted By: DipstikYeah, well I'm pretty sure either of my ante decks could beat this pile consistently.


    Go find another dick to suck on, chump.


    Your witty banter is as bad as your deck idea.
  12.  
    Now considering Fauna Shaman, Squadron Hawk, and Acidic Slime/Thornscape Battlemage for this deck.

    Thoughts?
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012 edited
     
    Major Update on 7/14/12:

    -4 Werebear
    -4 Wordly Tutor
    -1 Psychatog
    -2 Upheaval
    -2 Jitte
    -2 Thought Currier
    -3 Steelshaper's Gift
    -4 Brainstorm
    -4 Fellwar Stone
    -1 Probe
    -1 Recoup

    +4 Fauna Shaman
    +4 Uktabi Orangutan
    +1 Goblin Settler
    +2 War Priest of Thune
    +1 Geddon
    +1 Living Death
    +2 Wood Elves
    +4 Impulse
    +5 Lands
    +4 Mind Stone
    +1 Awakening
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 14th 2012 edited
     
    Wanting to work 1 more Awakening and 2 Capsizes into the deck.

    Seems greedy, but I want it anyway.

    LIGHTNING EDIT: How good would a deck with 4 Awakening, 4 Seedborn Muse, and infinite Dwarven Miners be?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJul 16th 2012
     
    ANSWER: Not good at all. Not if my Lightning Bolt can stop your 3-card combo. Run Dense Foliage!!!
  13.  
    Update for 8/1:

    -1 Goblin Settler
    -1 FTK
    -1 TScape Battlemage
    -1 Anger

    +4 Avalanche Riders


    -3 Probe
    -2 Deep Analysis
    -1 Quiet Spec

    +2 Awakening
    +4 Capsize

    -1 Okiba Gang Shin
    -1 Divining Witch

    +1 Buried Alive
    +1 Living Death

    +2 Wood Elves
  14.  
    Considering Worldly Tutor, Sylvan Tutor, Phantasmal Image, and Spikes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012
     
    RE: Green Mirage Tutors - Why?

    I don't see any way this deck can compete with the efficiency of aggro. And vs control, a single counterspell can also stop your relevant threat and leave a ton of mana dorks + Rav Rats on the board. Tinker -> Aether Spellbomb...? WTF, you're spamming aggro dudes and not running a Tinker-Bot. I thought you said you knew how to play Vintage. This is apparently not the case.

    Play legacy. A lot of 5-C hands tend to run with the same pace as that format, so get used to realizing that Impulse > Brainstorm is never, ever the case. Ever. Unlike Vintage, you're not ever going to drop 2-3 real Moxen and power out a T1 Jace (or Man-o-War, I guess), so find those super-efficient cards in your binder and actually PLAY THEM. That's all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeAug 9th 2012 edited
     
    Hey Guy!

    Yup, cut Tinker and Will. They were clogging up openers...would rather just have a dood.

    The A-Bomb is there now because I went to 4 Drakes. I wanted to be able to Trinket Mage for a way to bounce along with the 4 Capsizes, 4 Bouncers, and 4 Manowars.

    Against aggro I have 4 Drakes, 4 FTKs, and 8 Walls. Against control I have the Tradewind/Awakening/Geddon plan. The gooders against control are also recurring Rats, Thunderscapes, and Avalanche Riders.

    The Mirage Tutors would create some redundancy in getting the real bombs of this deck - Ninja, Fauna Shaman, and Tradewind.

    Tried out Green Sun's Zenith for a little bit on your recommendation and it's not bad. I thought it only getting a green man was pretty awful at first, but it may get a shot.

    Don't be such a Corn Flake and we should be able to get some games in.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 11th 2012
     
    I cut Will from my control too. Just running cards too slow to abuse it - roughly a Snapcaster plus a fetch when it resolves. Tinker, however, isn't a dude: it's fucking Optimus LickMyBallsAndEatTheGame(YouMiserableDurdleSuck) Prime. If you don't like winning, then don't bother running it. Maybe I should preface some of these comments with that condition.
    Tues and some Weds are what I've got. Just don't cry into your shoes so loud and maybe bring a towel this time.
  15.  
    All your Tinkered Bots belong to me.

    Sincerely,

    Gilded Drake
  16.  
    Update for 8/14:

    -2 Fire/Ice
    -1 Magma Jet

    +3 L Bolt

    -1 Awakening
    +1 Jitte

    -4 Inquisition
    +4 Baleful Strix
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 15th 2012
     
    Dear Iggy,
    youve got a purdy face thx for the chow
    Your Friends,
    -The Wild Nacatls

    Sometimes Drake beats Tinker-bot. Sometimes removal answers an answer. If I don't have shroud, three turns or a Bolt, then perhaps. But if the question was "how do I beat Kird Ape," then

    *brain-vein bulges, stroke ensues*
  17.  
    Posted By: frogger42Dear Iggy,
    youve got a purdy face thx for the chow
    Your Friends,
    -The Wild Nacatls


    Interested in testing the matchup, because I think this version has reasonable game against 3-2-1 on account of you know, playing blockers.

    Umezawa's Jitte is the key to the lock.

    Posted By: frogger42Sometimes Drake beats Tinker-bot. Sometimes removal answers an answer. If I don't have shroud, three turns or a Bolt, then perhaps. But if the question was "how do I beat Kird Ape," then
    *brain-vein bulges, stroke ensues*


    Shroud is Shroud, there's no getting around ol' Inkwell. Just play out all my guys and try to setup a situation where the opponent can't attack....critical mass...etc.

    I mean, how does anyone kill that thing? Who is going to be the one to play Chainer's Edict?

    Any other Bot is either getting bounced (Bouncer, Capsize, Manowar, Tradewind) or Control Magic'ed (Drake).
  18.  
    Thinking about adding some sort of Birthing Pod Package to this deck.

    Re-usable tutor is re-usable.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2012
     
    Not gonna lie, the 'Pod is freaking nuts. Like, think demonic-tutor power every turn for 1 mana. So before you "think" about adding just do that shit.
  19.  
    Big update upcoming with some pretty 1337 changes.

    Ended up cutting Strix because the mana is too tough on turn 2. This deck wants trop trop trop and then another trop. When Birthing Pod goes in, Walla Walla Roots is probably gonna have to go back in.

    I think Madness is prob more efficient to do than Squee. Not to say Squee isn't also useful here, but you prob get more out of the tempo you're spending by dropping things that pay off more immediately - Basking Rootwalla, other madness spells.

    Here's the thing with Madness guy...those costs are still costs.

    All I want is "Bounce a Guy Over and Over" (Bouncer) and "Draw a Card Over and Over" (Looter). I don't want to be locked into playing a 4/4 or Gravdigging Something, or casting a Black Reprisal.

    I know I know there's 8 Arrogant Wurms to play with now, woopidee doo.

    Bouncer, Looter, Mongrel. All the other discards in the deck are creature discards (Survival and Fauna Shaman). Basking Rootwalla is in because it's a creature AND IT MADNESSES FOR ZERO - Bonkers - let's see, run this rootwalla through the Survival (or Survival Chick), get a Tradewind, cast Awakening and welcome you to Bounce City.

    The other madness stuff that costs mana is just not as good as, for example, casting FTK, Ninja'ing a Rat, or finding and equipping Jitte of Hits.
  20.  
    Update for 8/23:

    -2 Anger
    -3 Thunderscape
    -3 Magma Jet
    +4 Imperial Recruiter
    +1 Lightning Bolt
    +1 Gamble
    +2 Dwarven Miner

    -1 STP
    -1 War Priest of Thune
    +2 Steelshaper's Gift

    -4 Baleful Strix
    +4 Nezumi Shortfang

    -1 Wood Elves
    +1 Awakening

    -4 Impulse
    +4 Brainstorm
  21.  
    Recruiter is nice in this deck -

    T1 Bird, T2 Recruiter (get Tradewind) T3 Tradewind T4 Bounce Recruiter Replay, Get Seedborn Muse

    New Changes are:

    -1 Awakening
    -1 Phantasmal Image
    -1 Wood Elves

    +3 Seedborn Muse

    Funny thing, Tradewind and Seedborn are both Spirits. So Drogskol Captain may get in there as a protection piece that eats a white slot.