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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Kids these days...
    •  
      CommentAuthorSoapbox
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     
    Well; i dont get your point Dipstick.
    With this comment you prply wanted archive page #2.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    And with that comment, you wanted to archive your poor spelling and punctuation.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Hey Soapbox,
    If you want to play legacy, all the blue Duals and Fetches are where you start. You can play 'budget decks' like rock (w/b/g) or zoo (r/w/g), but IMO the best player plays Brainstorm. So I'd start with blue, get Wastelands (most decks run 4x) and work my way to all the other duals and fetches.
    No Badlands in your manabase? It is the worst dual, esp in Legacy, but probably worthwhile here.
    I'd get the Shocklands last. It's been a couple years since I've seen a deck need to run 5x duals, esp. since the new Fetches came out. Thawing Glaciers is bad in Legacy, too, but it's much easier on the wallet. And I think it's worth running Dust Bowl over Wasteland in control, though that's really not a legacy card, either.
    And occasionally a deck runs Creeping Tar Pit x1 to kill Jace. Pretty rare, though, considering Delver's a better T1 play.
    Mutavault is best in Merfolk/Faeries. Factory's better in 5-C, def. And you don't need it over Mishra's Factory in Legacy, unless you're playing Merfolk (the good tribal deck) or Faeries (the bad one). Unless Merfolk gets a serious addition, I think it's mostly going to be sidelined, so you probably won't even need 'Vaults for the most part. They're just pricey cause of Modern.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     
    My comment about Kitchen Finks was in response to this:

    Posted By: frogger42I'm not really sold on Kitchen Finks, too, but depends on your meta...


    And yes, that does further the conversation. And yes, I did read the decklist. I should have been more specific.

    Posted By: Illusions-Go "Correctly playing" Arcane Denial is dropping a Lodestone Bauble or Zorb, countering it with your own AD and JANKcestralling yourself OR countering the Disk and then laying Stasis or Worb with a Mine out. - this was 1996.


    This couldn't be farther from the truth. If he's trying to work on his manabase then there is absolutely nothing wrong with a counterspell with a single blue mana that is a HARD counter. Arcane Denial does everything you want in a cheap, affordable, HARD counter: It cantrips, it has an easy cost, and it's easy to acquire (read: dirt cheap).

    It's not a counterspell for all occasions (which, theoretically, no counterspell is). You play it according to the need of the table state. About to get blown out by a Balance? Arcane that shit. Opponent gonna Contract? Nah, just draw two instead and I'll draw one as well. I truly have no problems with the card and haven't for as long as I've been playing 5-color, which is about 14 years now. Well...whatever, I tried. Thanks for the heads up Chapman.

    Soapbox: This might just be me but Thawing Glaciers becomes more and more of a junk card the better your manabase gets. It's incredibly slow and I think you'll come to find that you won't miss it if you don't play with it.
  1.  
    @ Soapbox

    You're looking for "achieve" rather than "archive" in your last couple posts.

    A comment on your proposed mana base - that's alot of fetches. It would be a nice experiment to start at 40 and move down from there, as a control deck if you give up too much life you are allowing beatdown what amounts to extra turns.

    Post #51 is directed at me. Don't trip, it's all in stride.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Soapbox:

    Frogger is right about the Duals and fetches for Legacy. I might be alone on this thought but I think it's totally unneccessary to have both the old and new fetches (and by that I mean a mix between the two). I play solely with the new fetches and I kind of like it more. Plus, they are way easier to acquire for the 5-color. As for Legacy though, picking up Flooded Strands and Polluted Delta is always a good call.

    Good luck!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSoapbox
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: DipstikAnd with that comment, you wanted to archive your poor spelling and punctuation.


    haha; thats how you treat foreigners in your country? you know english is not my motherstounge; how good is your german in terms of spelling and punctuation? Dipstick! are you ahead of google translator? i'd give you tech points for that reason.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Posted By: Soapbox
    Posted By: DipstikAnd with that comment, you wanted to archive your poor spelling and punctuation.


    haha; thats how you treat foreigners in your country? you know english is not my motherstounge; how good is your german in terms of spelling and punctuation? Dipstick!


    I know only what Rammstein has so poorly allowed me to know. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    No, that's how we treat dumbasses on the internet. If I sound like an uppity little shit on a german-speaking forum, I'd fully expect someone to call me out over there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: JD.5I truly have no problems with the card and haven't for as long as I've been playing 5-color, which is about 14 years now. Well...whatever, I tried. Thanks for the heads up Chapman.


    What a sandy vag. You even hedged it by saying, "I'm probably going to get punched..." and then the second someone throws a lil' jab out there you take your ball and go home.

    "Arcane Denial - The Hill to Die On" OR "Arcane Denial - You're Either With Us or Against Us" OR "Acane Denial - Better Flash my 14 Year Credentials Just to Be Safe"

    FFS guy, we're just gettin' STARTED.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Children, play nice. Whenever you fight in the sandbox, someone always wets themselves, and then your mom and I have to buy new sand again.

    *insert more comments about your mom and I*

    Not enough people here to really get this started. Maybe we should go on some EDH forums and start trolling there.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    I'm still trying to figure out where the snarky California kid gets off on his arrogance.

    It's not a little jab that I'm concerned about - if that's what that was - it's the annoyance of trying to convey information that I thought was already obvious public knowledge when dealing with a budget deck. It's a known fact that with someone trying to acquire Duals that trying to pay 1U is easier than UU. Logic always prevails.

    And I'm guessing you're new to 5-color. We used to punch each other in the shoulder all the time in, y'know, real life when we played 5 and would talk about cards we liked. I used to get a punch in the shoulder all time when I would talk about how much I loved Misdirection in 5-color. Ah those were the good ol' days.

    I think I am going to take the Dipstik approach and see my way out of this concert venue. Later.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     

    God, arcane denial is just complete and udder garbage shit. Nobody should ever play this shit. There's a billion better counter spells @ 1U that are better than fucking arcane denial.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    I gave up arguing with people who want to play Arcane Denial back in 2002... They're like Ron Paul supporters. You know they're not going to change their mind, so why put up with the aggravation?
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      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    And this is where I would get punched in the arm for defending Arcane Denial. It's not the End All Be All best OMG LOL!!1! counterspell ever, but for a budget deck there is nothing wrong with it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012
     
    Except there's 100 better choices that don't make your opponent smile when you cast it. Shit, play memory lapse.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     

    They're like Ron Paul supporters. You know they're not going to change their mind, so why put up with the aggravation?

    You mean any political supporter? O_o

    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
     
    If you pay attention, ron paul people are... special...
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
     

    I pay well enough attention ;)

  2.  
    Kill a Deed; Kill a Etched Oracle; Kill a Sterling Groove!

    But yeah; it can prply be a one of in my deck. I agree.


    Does Split Second take effects off the stack or can they still priority-own you by casting then activating?

    1 or 2 KGrips seems ok. Nails a Masticore and a Trike too.
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      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
     
    They can cast and immediately activate, but who does that?
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: DipstikThey can cast and immediately activate, but who does that?


    Yup. No one, unless they smell it or know you have it.

    (Have fun with that major opening.)

    @ Soapbox

    Other Possibles:

    Shadowmage Infiltrator. This card basically has Poison/Infect: 5.

    Dimir Cutpurse. This card has Poison: 10.

    Hypnotic Spector. Don't call it a comeback!

    Hunting Grounds. This card is super Johnny, but can be SVG under the right circumstances. The obvious combo with Mystic Snake that every Johnny tried to get to work when Apoc came out. Just think tho, free Vensers, free Snakes. The other card I liked with this was that Wizard that taps to Ancestral, he's in Onslaught Block.

    Cabal Interrogator. 1B I win in the Control Mirror.

    There's the morph guy that forces a discard when he attacks unblocked. He's in both Black and Blue. The idea here is that you play men that the opponent doesn't want hitting him, so you draw the removal out, and then HIIIII YAAAA. Ninjutsu MF'er.

    Man, looking throught the Scourge cards is really taking me back. Remember when LTP used to be Restricted? That may need to get back in there 4x with all the Tops and Syvlans running around...

    Just sayin'.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2012
     
    Hey Soapbox,
    Idea: drop Eladamri's Call, it's just a mana sink. Run ... f-, forgot the name of the card. Anyway, there's a 3/2 for W3 that comes into play and gives you 2 1-drop creatures. So yeah, it's like getting a Draw 2 plus a creature at a decent cost. Dragon Master Outcast x1 and Gorilla Shaman x1 are viable targets, as well as Hex Parasite.
    Guys, anything else worthwhile to snag with this dude who's name I can't remember?
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 31st 2012 edited
     
    Yeah don't play the 2 mana instant, play the 4 mana guy that tutors for....yeah nothing good in the deck.

    The control deck with creatures should play of bunch of books, sticks, and disenchants that happen to also be guys, then bounce them around for fun and profit.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2012
     
    Ranger of Eos. And you're saying don't play the Hill Giant that draws you two cards. 'K.
    I think if you can find 5 decent 1-drops (maaaybe Weathered Wayfarer) it's worth running the guy. That accounts for 1 target in hand, and drawing 2 of them; worst-case scenario in a 300-card deck.
    Or Ninja-ing the guy, too. Should work and be rather profitable, esp that Dragon goblin. Jace would be purdy neat to shuffle the 2 dudes back in... but I guess just Brainstorm will have to do.
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      CommentAuthorSoapbox
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2012
     
    I did some adjustments, the new decklist sorts like this:

    -1 Crop Rotation
    -3 Krosan Grip
    -4 Uktabi Orangutan
    -4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    -4 Kitchen Finks
    -4 Counterbalance
    -4 Stifle
    -4 Shadow of Doubt
    -4 Darksteel Ingot
    -1 Monk Realist
    -4 Etched Oracle
    ------------------------------
    +1 Ray of Revelation
    +4 Beast Within
    +4 Coiling Oracle
    +4 Qasali Pridemage
    +4 Stoneforge Mystic
    +4 Preordain
    +4 Evasive Action
    +4 Mind Stone
    +4 Verdalken Shackles
    +3 Ancient Grudge
    +1 Batterskull
    +1 Umezawas Jitte
    +1 Skullclamp
    +1 Flamtongue Kavu
    +1 Deep Analysis
    ------------------------------
    [25] Red
    [4] Creatures

    1 Gamble
    4 Ancient Grudge
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Fire / Ice
    4 Magma Jet
    4 Lightning Helix

    4 Flametongue Kavu
    ------------------------------
    [25] Green
    [14] Creatures

    1 Regrowth
    1 Life from the Loam
    1 Roar of the Wurm
    4 Beast Within
    4 Firespout

    1 Genesis
    1 Eternal Witness
    4 Mystic Snake
    4 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Coiling Oracle
    ------------------------------
    [25] White
    [9] Creatures

    1 Enlightend Tutor
    1 Balance
    2 Ray of Revelation
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Wrath of God
    4 Eladamris Call

    1 Academy Rector
    4 Aven Mindcensor
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    ------------------------------
    [25] Black
    [0] Creatures

    1 Demonic Tutor
    1 Vampiric Tutor
    1 Demonic Consultation
    1 Yawgmoths Will
    1 Entomb
    4 Duress
    4 Vindicate
    4 Tainted Pact
    4 Countersquall
    4 Pernicious Deed
    ------------------------------
    [73] Blue
    [24] Creatures

    1 Future Sight
    1 Memory's Journey
    1 Mystical Tutor
    1 Personal Tutor
    1 Intuition
    1 Gifts Ungiven
    1 Tinker
    2 Deep Analysis
    4 Quiet Speculation
    4 Force of Will
    4 Counterspell
    4 Remand
    4 Cryptic Command
    4 Evasive Action
    4 Fact or Fiction
    4 Mystical Teachings
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Preordain

    4 Venser Shaper Savant
    4 Snapscaster Mage
    4 Ninja of the Deep Hours
    4 Trinket Mage
    4 Vendilion Clique
    4 Court Husar
    ------------------------------
    27 Artifacts
    [1] Creatures

    1 Sol Ring
    1 Isochron Szeptre
    1 Crucible of the World
    1 Batterskull
    1 Jitte
    1 Skullclamp
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Nihil Spellbomb
    4 Engineered Explosives
    4 Verdalken Shackles
    4 Mindstone

    1 Inkwell Leviathan
    ------------------------------
    [200] Cards Total
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012
     

    [200] Cards Total

    Aren't you missing some cards? O_o

    •  
      CommentAuthorSoapbox
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2012
     
    yeah im not through with the manabase