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    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2011 edited
     
    *Updated 3/14/13*

    (Originally posted in November 2011)

    --------------------
    Red: 25
    4 Magma Jet
    4 Fire/Ice
    4 Pyroblast
    4 Ancient Grudge
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Banefire
    1 Recoup
    R Gamble

    White: 25
    4 Sterling Grove
    4 Mirari's Wake
    4 Sphinx's Revelation
    4 Wrath of God
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Ray of Revelation
    1 Moat
    1 Replenish
    R Enlightened Tutor
    R Academy Rector
    R Balance

    Black: 25
    4 Contract
    4 Duress
    4 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Shred Memory
    4 Tainted Pact
    1 Darkblast
    R DT
    R VT
    R Seal
    R Will

    Green: 38
    4 Sylvan Library
    4 Exploration
    4 Summer Bloom
    4 Mulch
    4 Nature's Lore
    4 Three Visits
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Moment's Peace
    1 Abundance
    1 Battlefield Scrounger
    R Sylvan Scrying
    R Regrowth
    R Eternal Witness
    R Fastbond
    R Oath of Druids

    Blue: 55
    4 Force of Will
    4 Mana Drain
    4 Mana Leak
    4 Muddle The Mixture
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Thirst for Knowledge
    4 FoF
    4 Tezzeret, The Seeker
    3 Quiet Speculation
    3 Deep Analysis
    3 Time Warp
    1 Future Sight
    R Personal Tutor
    R Mystical Tutor
    R Merchant Scroll
    R Ancestral Recall
    R Time Walk
    R Intuition
    R Gifts Ungiven
    R Tinker
    R Fabricate

    Artifacts: 25
    4 J. Bird
    4 Horn of Greed
    4 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Zuran Orb
    5 Moxen
    R Crystal Chimes (Mox Crystal)
    R Lotus
    R Ring
    R Mana Crypt
    R Mana Vault
    R Crucible

    Lands: 105
    32 Fetches (20 Old Fetch + Misty, Scalding, Verdant)
    35 Duals (16 Blue, 4 Tai, 4 Sav, 4 Bay, 3 Bad, 3 Scrub, 1 Plat)
    3 Basics (3 Island)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Reflecting Pool
    4 Exotic Orchard
    4 Hinterland Harbor
    4 Treetop Village
    4 Krosan Verge
    2 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
    2 Academy Ruins
    2 Forbidden Orchard
    1 Lonely Sandbar
    1 Glacial Chasm
    R Academy
    R LOA
    R Strip
    --------------------
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2011 edited
     
    Some combos in deck (ranging from obvious to not-so-obvious):

    Sylvan Library + Abundance = 3 Cards a Turn (You get to name land/spell)
    Sylvan Library or Fastbond with Gerrard's Wisdom = For more cards and more land plays, a little lifegain is useful if a Zorb or Chasm hasn't shown up.

    Abundance + Contract = Demand Payment and Maximum ROI.

    Exploration + Horn of Greed = Play 2 lands and Draw 2 Cards a Turn until you stop drawing lands
    Exploration + Horn of Greed + Abundance = Play 2 lands and Draw 2 Cards a Turn at 100% chance with no limiting factor

    Exploration + Horn of Greed + Gush = Draw Power

    Fastbond + Horn of Greed = play lands until you stop drawing lands or get low on life
    Fastbond + Horn of Greed + Zorb/Chasm = play a land, draw a card until you stop drawing lands
    Fastbond + Horn of Greed + Abundance + Zorb/Chasm = Play every land in your deck, then stack your deck, Win.

    Fastbond + Crucible = Recur Fetches, Wastelands, Strip Mines until life is low or you've geddoned them
    Fastbond + Crucible + Zorb/Chasm = Same as above except no worries about life total
    Fastbond + Crucible + Zorb = Infinite Life
    Fastbond + Crucible + Horn + Zorb/Chasm = Inifinite Life + Draw Your Deck and Win (if Zorb). Options are land-dependant (if Chasm)
    Fastbond + Crucible + Horn + Chasm + Trade Routes + Any land = 1 Colorless, Draw a Card.
    Fastbond + Crucible + Horn + Zorb/Chasm + Abundance = Play every land, draw a card, then stack your deck and win

    Routes can do some interesting things with Exploration (or Bond + Chasm) and Academy. It can protect your lands from wastes and it ditches chasm in the early game when it's no good.

    Bond/Explore + Loam + Horn = Similar tricks to Crucible but much more tame considering Loam is 1G.

    Oath + Witness + Will (Old and Obvious, in most cases this is a Win)
    Oath + Rector + Flashback Firebolt = Get an enchantment
    Oath + Weaver + Flashback Peace = A lot of Fogs while you set up
    Oath + Feeder = Some more life to stop the beats or Sylvan it up, can sac itself if Oath situation demands it (same with Weaver) in there mostly for nostalgia, but peaches is randomly good.
    Oath + Morphling = Good times. Just like back in the day.

    Timewarp + K. Rec + Scroll Rack + Massive Hand = Can be Infinite Turns if your Lib is low due to Oath or playing all your lands. Another way is with Abundance, basically if you draw a card with Abundance in play and name land with no lands left, you get to stack. Then K Torch them (lol) or Wrath then take infinite turns and attack with a Treetop (etc...it's academic).

    2 K Recs with Scroll Rack and a Low Library can recur Time Warp/Walk indefinitely.

    Thinking about adding 1 Channel and Fellwar Land to the deck (Didn't know about Fellwar Land 'til I read these forums).
  1.  
    Some more cool plays:

    Routes and Chasm to shut down the attack phase and sorcery speed burn w/out having to pay upkeep.

    The gambit for Chasm where you have Bond, Horn, and Abundance in play and decide to drop low in life to try and mise the Chasm. LOL. Seems bad in most situations...but funny.

    Having Sylvan and Abundance in play and finding Warp/Walk is such a beating, then you find Recoup in the extra turn to continue the chain.

    Jank that could be cut:
    1. The K Torches. Not the most elegant win condition but effective and no nonsense in 1 card. Stroke and Mind over Matter could go in.
    2. AK. This card is not that terrible in 5. Well, not as bad as it looks. Intuition for Contract is not always better. Also, there's the Oath Engine in there too. Want to keep this in for old times sake. Considering cutting this for Evasive Action.

    Changes to List in First Post:
    -1 Gush
    +1 FoF

    Gush is not good enough without Explore/Bond. FoF, even though it doesn't work with Abundance, is good ol' reliable EOT draw out the counter goodness.

    -1 Hinterland Harbor
    +1 Treetop Village
    Also considering Factories and Conclaves.

    New cards are lame and this deck needs a plan if Oath is down against Control or if Aggro/Midrange kills their own guys to dodge Oath. However, too many CIPT lands are not great.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeNov 26th 2011
     
    Mind Twist isn't restricted. Not according to the B&R.
    What's DA in your blue slot?
    Breeding Pool is probably hotter than the painlands.
    Forbidden Orchard? Make the opponent deal with unplanned creatures.
    You probably already know Burgeoning = Bad Exploration. If you need a couple more.
    Blue Krosan Rec pitches to FoW better.

    Just nitpicking. You should build to whatever your meta is... which I'm guessing is nothing. Just some thoughts about PW'er control and Cheaty red: I'm guessing you're broken enough to get around Cheaty Red's non-basic hate, though if a Jace hits the field maybe you just panic. Is it worth running that PW'er/ others with Time Walk x5? Or maybe throw in a tutorable O-Ring for to deal with them when they can't be burned. Hex Parasite eats those dudes up, too.
  2.  
    Thanks for the post.

    That B&R list is a little jacked. I gotta think that Mind Twist is Restricted.
    DA is Deep Analysis. Card is just too good to not have in the control mirror. It works well with Contract, FoF and Spec. It has comeback potential i.e. if you're behind you can come back with this card. It's an all around all star.
    Will think about Breeding Pool. Forbidden Orchard would be too painful and really only works with 1 card in the deck - Oath.
    Burgeoning is meh.
    Yeah the Blue Krosan Rec is definitely better. I just found out about that card the other night after scanning the Innistrad set list on gatherer to post in the Innistrad Thread.
  3.  
    I'm not familiar with either of the decks you mention, "PW'er Control" or "Cheaty Red". What is their deal?

    The Abundance deck runs a fair amount of basics and a lot of land (the same ratio as 24 land in a 60 card deck) - this is designed to be less susceptible to one of this format's long time bombs: Price of Progress.

    Turn 1 Miner is still Turn 1 Miner. Pretty darn good.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011
     
    Planeswalker Control is a control deck that runs lots of planeswalkers. It's bad, but fun to play. Control is outright better if it runs a flash or key-vault shell instead of goofy planeswalker abilities, but once it gets going, control will do its thing eventually.

    Cheaty Red is a deck that uses hybrid mana spells, split cards, and phyrexian mana to fill each of their non-red color requirements with red cards. It's basically a budget aggro deck that maximizes on its ability to hate on non-basic lands.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011 edited
     
    11/28/11 Changes:

    +1 Recoup
    -1 K. Torch

    -1 Gerrard's Wisdom
    +1 Wrath

    -1 Abyss
    +1 Shadow of Doubt

    -4 Ebony Charm
    +4 Rapid Decay

    -2 K. Rec
    +2 Memory's Journey

    +1 Gush
    +1 DA
    +1 FoF
    Going to 4 of each.
    -1 Mana Crypt
    -1 Mana Vault
    -1 Spike Feeder

    -4 AK
    +4 Evasive Action

    -1 Trade Routes
    +1 Life from the Loam

    -1 Hinterland Harbor
    +1 Treetop Village
  4.  
    Posted By: DipstikPlaneswalker Control is a control deck that runs lots of planeswalkers. It's bad, but fun to play. Control is outright better if it runs a flash or key-vault shell instead of goofy planeswalker abilities, but once it gets going, control will do its thing eventually.


    Sounds interesting.

    @Frogger, if they tap a bunch of mana on their turn for a Jace, then I'm going to probably get my bomb on my turn. So they get a Jace and a free Brainstorm, and then I get to setup Crucible and Geddon them. Sounds fair.

    Flash and Key Vault are a much more problematic because they're cheap to cast, easy to find, and easy to recur if necessary.

    Posted By: DipstikCheaty Red is a deck that uses hybrid mana spells, split cards, and phyrexian mana to fill each of their non-red color requirements with red cards. It's basically a budget aggro deck that maximizes on its ability to hate on non-basic lands.


    Cheaty Red seems good. 8x Miner, Detritivore, Blood Moon, Pillar, Price, Vortex, every burn spell, and then Seething Song -> Arc-Slogger.

    Sacred Ground may have a place in the format after all. Life Gain and Card Draw seem good against this deck. Definitely gauntlet worthy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2011 edited
     
    Update: 12/08/11

    In red in Post #1


    -4 Shadow of Doubt

    +3 Mind Twist
    +1 Nightmare Void

    Due to the clarification on Mind Twist's B&R status.

    Also now considering a random Boseiju.

    Nightmare Void is a house in the control matchup and this deck likes to dredge.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeDec 8th 2011 edited
     
    Sacred Ground... maybe not so much. I don't think I even bother running Ruination in my Cheaty Red, gets in the way of PoP, maybe Mask of Intolerance (like to test this more). PoP and Blood Moon x12 is pretty good (wizard cycler -> Magus).
    I think the Hybrid mana guys are fairly legit in Cheaty Red. All mountains (R mox, Lotus), no Wasteland , fetches or anything... nothing else I've seen so far that I'd want land-wise; esp to drop Demigod. I don't think I have room for Slogger, either; he's 5 mana, no haste, no color req. Seething Song = not quite burn or threat, esp in topdeck mode, and I think Demigod and maybe 1 other card top out at 5 mana. It runs slightly slower aggro with less good creatures than zoo, but good burn and lots of non-basic hate (obv) to disrupt.
    And dodges Shadow and Mindcensor, Wasteland, random other 5-C problems almost completely.

    EDIT: That said, it's not that fun to play. I think Matt Damon could pick up the deck and win some. A contender, though.
  5.  
    Maybe time for a Cheaty Red Thread guy.

    Thoughts on your Thoughts:

    1) Yup, Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon are some serious hate.
    2) Call it what you want to call it, Arc-Slogger wins games by himself if not removed pronto.
    3) Seething Song gives the deck a way to cheat mana costs and play good things earlier. Can't ask for Dark Ritual to be Ancestral Recall. You're red. You want CA, play another deck.
    4) Not proposing to run Sacred Ground specifically for yours or anyone elses pet deck. The card does things no other card can. It says, my land will not be fucked with (in a specific way: opp won't destroy it) this game. If a deckbuilder felt that LD was what's holding a deck back, then Sacred Ground would get a shot. It's that simple. Are there other ways in the format to fuck with someone's land? Of course.
    5) Just a basic point of observation for those following along at home is that this particular deck runs a ton of enchantment tutors, so the Sacred Ground would be gettable if the matchup/game called for it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2011
     
    Yeah, thinking about it, Sacred Ground also gets around Crucible/Strip Mine, Loam locks. It's pretty hot against most control builds, I'd imagine. Worth the 1 slot, though every now and then you're going to find that card in your hand and feel a bit goofy.
    WAIT! Scepter + Stifle + Loam lock = get around Sacred Ground! Oh noes, run Terra Eternal instead!!1

    I'll try to get Cheaty Red up at some point, but I took most of the cards out for other decks. It's nothing special.
  6.  
    Yup, it's a bit narrow.

    No No Terra Eternal. I still want to be able destroy their lands. lol

    Decklist for Cheaty Red would be cool to see. Might as well.
  7.  
    Update: 12/12/11

    In Green on Post 1


    +1 Moment's Peace
    +4 Compulsive Research
    -4 Farseek
    -1 Zuran Orb

    +2 Gerrard's Wisdom
    -2 Idyllic Tutor

    -4 Mind Twist
    +4 Night's Whisper

    -1 Recoup
    +1 Pyroclasm

    -1 Treetop Village
    +1 Island
  8.  
    So close to cutting Fabricate.

    The 3 CC tutors (Fab and IdEEEL-ick) are just not that hot.

    Fab usually goes for a Horn or Crucible. The fact that it gets Crux is what is saving it right now.

    Idyllic is usually Sylvan or Bond/Explore, occasionally Abundance.

    The fight is between playing more bad tutors or playing more draw to draw into the good tutors. There's nothing like naturally drawing a combo piece + extras.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2011 edited
     
    Update:

    -2 Acad Ruins
    -2 City of Traitors
    -1 Maze of Ith
    +4 Breeding Pool
    +1 Scrubland
    -2 Swamp
    +2 Plains
    -4 City of Brass
    +4 Exotic Orchard

    -4 Tithe
    +2 Idyllic
    +2 Wrath

    -1 Crop Rotation
    -1 Sylvan Scrying
    -1 Moment's Peace
    +2 Life from the Loam
    +1 Grizzly Fate

    -4 Compulsive Research
    +4 Mana Leak

    Wanting to avoid the "drawing cards until I die" syndrome and make sure I play enough threats or at least ways to find them in order to be able to punish bad draws and actually be effective on an early enough turn to matter.

    With 120 lands Tithe is a waste of time, just like Farseek. The reason it's Fellwar Stone not Farseek is because any 2 lands on turn 2 make a Fellwar...that and Tinker, and opposing Geddons. I'd rather have a good mix than be either or.

    Scrying and Rotate are fine but not for this kind of deck. Highly doubt I'll miss 'em. Grizzly Fate is a non-oathable non-Fastbond/Crucible-related, flashbackable win condition....and it's green. These 2 are now competing with LFTL 3 and 4.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2012 edited
     
    1/6/12 Update:

    -1 Trade Routes - Too dead too often. It's on the short list to come back but since it's now 2 Zorb 2 Chasm, Routes is less wanted in the early game if at all. Still good in man-land fights and against wastelands.
    +2 Muddle the Mixture - This gets Oath, which I'm always trying to get. Trust that if you have a man out, I'm trying to resolve Oath. Muddle also gets DT, which gets everything else....and it counters things in a pinch...and Balance...yeah...Balance.

    -1 Torch
    +1 Invoke the Firemind - Wanted this card to be a little less dead on turns prior to one the it wins the game on.
    -1 Pyroclasm
    +1 Shard Phoenix - Another guy that I wouldn't mind Oathing up, and he can attack for the win as opposed to Pyroclasm which is very good in it's matchup and not so much in the other matchups.
    -1 Firebolt
    +1 Gamble - I hate this card. Losing to your own cards is the worst, however there is just not that many ways of tutoring arts and enchants so I'm going to give this a try.

    -1 Grizzly Fate
    +1 Feeder - Life is good. This deck like to have more life so it can spend it on DA, Whisper, Sylvan, and Fetches.

    I redid the land from 120 to 118, added some man lands among other things. Basically cut 2 land for a Zorb and a Muddle.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 17th 2012
     
    Grizzly Fate is a King Amongst Men.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 18th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: JD.5Grizzly Fate is a King Amongst Men.


    Yeah it fills it's role really well. If they take away Oath and they take away Bond then I want to be able to be OK. There are some dicey situations that come up with turning over Bond in a Tainted Pact. There's a reason this deck doesn't have Consult. If either of those goes into the ante I want to be able to Bird it back to the yard and then regrow it or mem's journey it.

    Right now it's Superman and Man-Lands. Grizzly Fate is standing next to the Head Coach on sidelines.
  9.  
    Update:

    Put in Top and 4x Muddle.

    Top - so annoying yet too good to ignore.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2012
     
    Too lazy to look but are you rinning Wild Research? That thing is a gooder.

    And Gamble is good but it's always a gamble when you play with shitty cards. Hey oh, Nick Bach!

    I was half serious about Grizzly Fate.

    Shard Pheonix is not that great. Oath should strictly be 'get target overpowered creature into play far too early', not ' get a card that hasn't seen play outside of EDH - and even that's pushing it - because it Pyroclasms-ish and flies'. If you're looking for a red boardwiping creature, try Crater Hellion on for size, at least he dies and allows you to trigger Oath again.

    And to answer your question like three posts above: More card draw in a combo-ish deck is key.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2012
     

    Grizzly Fate wins more games that it really should. It's a house I run/ran in every control deck I made.

  10.  
    Posted By: JD.5Too lazy to look but are you rinning Wild Research? That thing is a gooder.


    I'll try Wild Research, but the random discard could really backfire, pretty skeptical.

    Posted By: JD.5And Gamble is good but it's always a gamble when you play with shitty cards. Hey oh, Nick Bach!


    I cut Gamble again in the latest version of the deck. Ay Yo! Gamble with 0 cards in hand for Deep Analysis. Ay Yo!

    Posted By: JD.5I was half serious about Grizzly Fate.


    K.

    Posted By: JD.5Shard Pheonix is not that great. Oath should strictly be 'get target overpowered creature into play far too early', not ' get a card that hasn't seen play outside of EDH - and even that's pushing it - because it Pyroclasms-ish and flies'. If you're looking for a red boardwiping creature, try Crater Hellion on for size, at least he dies and allows you to trigger Oath again.


    You're missing the beauty of the Phoenix. Hellion would kill all their guys. I want to leave the Watchwolf and kill the 2 or 3 2/1s. If they don't have the disenchant or bounce/removal for the guy that comes out, the only other way to beat it is to race i.e. play out all their men. Phoenix also takes care of the same problem cards like Hellion does i.e. Waterfront Bouncer, Rootwater Thief...etc..etc...other random jank that needs to actually die and can kill itself on command.

    BTW, what do you think about Ancestor's Chosen?

    Posted By: JD.5And to answer your question like three posts above: More card draw in a combo-ish deck is key.


    I'm fine with that but will draw the line right before draw 7s. The version I fished last night put AK back in. Things are coming along.
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 23rd 2012
     
    The Chosen is a cool dude. He always makes me giggle a little bit. But fun nonetheless.

    Are you really getting screwed by cards like 'waterfront Bouncer' and 'Rootwater Thief?' I can't remember a single time anyone played Rootwater Thief in 5-color... ever. I certainly understand your logic and principle of having Pheonix but I still believe it's subpar at what it does overall. I guess in my mind, Oath has always been 'I win cause I got a free win condition and I can protect it all day or just get a new one next turn.'

    AK is dandy but can often feel like your cycling. I mean, we are playing with 300 cards. It's not like the old 250 days where burning through 3/4 of your deck was easily done in the first 15 turns or less. But, it is a reasonable Intuition target I suppose.

    Yet again, what do I know? I still think Merfolk Looter is an ultra-dumb good card (and lest we forget Thought Courier).
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 25th 2012 edited
     
    Posted By: JD.5The Chosen is a cool dude. He always makes me giggle a little bit. But fun nonetheless.


    For sure. =) The dream of gaining like 150 and running out a Bargain or a Channel...lol...that's a dream I wanna live. He's in the almost pile.

    Posted By: JD.5Are you really getting screwed by cards like 'waterfront Bouncer' and 'Rootwater Thief?' I can't remember a single time anyone played Rootwater Thief in 5-color... ever. I certainly understand your logic and principle of having Pheonix but I still believe it's subpar at what it does overall. I guess in my mind, Oath has always been 'I win cause I got a free win condition and I can protect it all day or just get a new one next turn.


    To answer your question, nah those were purely hypothetical examples. The Thief falls under DBAD (don't touch other people's stuff), but theoretically he's a way for a mid-range deck to get CfBs out of the opponents deck. It's not beyond the realm of possibility. Waterfront Bouncer is a total house in the right deck IMO, and is incidentally awesome against a deck that wants to Oath.

    Oath of Druids has a super long history in tournament Magic and it wasn't always a Cognivore or Simic Sky Swallower or Akroma, or whatever man they are using in Type 1 now (I seriously don't know anymore). Granted that way is a fine way to win, read: an effective way to win. However, the interaction between the Spikes and Morphling is still just as awesome as it was then and can be a more sure win in some situations.

    It sounds like we both agree that there needs to be at least 1 red guy in there to handle a particularly strong rush or problem creatures, Hellion and Phoenix are the ones, and that piece of knowledge is important to be mindful of moving forward. You'll also notice that if things come up in the wrong order Hellion could end up killing my Weaver and Superman, and this I cannot abide. On the other hand, Hellion can kill a Jotun Grunt. So that's pretty much where things stand.

    Posted By: JD.5AK is dandy but can often feel like your cycling. I mean, we are playing with 300 cards. It's not like the old 250 days where burning through 3/4 of your deck was easily done in the first 15 turns or less. But, it is a reasonable Intuition target I suppose.


    Yes. Absolutely. That's the trade-off right? I'm using it like a madness card because when the 1st AK is discarded, for example through a Contract or whatever, you didn't really *lose* the card because you get paid off when you find the next one and cast it. Obviously you cast the first one when there is nothing better but the plan is to find something better at that point in order to have 2 more Ancestrals in my deck for later. Not to mention this is an Oath deck. Not to mention that the defining card of this format, Contract from Below, requires a discard, and cards that work well with discard (flashback, AK, etc) are better.

    Posted By: JD.5Yet again, what do I know? I still think Merfolk Looter is an ultra-dumb good card (and lest we forget Thought Courier).


    Those cards are awesome in right deck and again, they work with the cards that like to be discarded, so their power level is elevated in 5C.

    For TL Abundance, the sift, draw, and manipulation can't come from men because my plan is Oath. My plan is get my library down to nothing and Scrounge Warps to infinite. My plan is to Oath down and Replenish or Will a bunch of good enchantments in play, which allow me to play every land in my deck and stack Fireball for Life Total.
  11.  
    Update for 01/25/12

    +2 Ancient Grudge
    -1 Firebolt
    -1 Gamble

    The games on Saturday reinforced my suspicion Top and Top advantage is important in 5C.

    -1 Moment's Peace
    +1 Life from the Loam

    Moment's Peace is a critical part of the deck's game plan, but LFTL is pure awesome. It's an engine all by itself. Also, I never ever ever want to miss a land drop with this deck and that goes twice for whenever Exploration is out.

    White and Black: No changes. These are OK for now.

    -2 Scroll Rack

    In this deck it's only really crazy when things have already taken off and then Scroll Rack breaks the game in half. That's called "win more" folks. It's a nice combo with Loam, like in a deck with 4x Land Tax and 4x Loam I could see someone playing more Racks.

    +4 AK
    +2 TfK
    +1 Trade Routes
    - Went to 2 Gush
    - Went to 2 DA

    -4 Breeding Pool
    -4 Basics
    +2 Treetop Village
    +2 Faerie Conclave

    Man lands = Good. Going down to 114 lands (with 2 Chasms) feels safe from testing.

    New list of possibles in each color for reference:

    Red:
    Crater Hellion
    Wild Research
    Incinerate (It kills River Boa)
    More Recoups

    White:
    Absorb
    Honden of Cleansing Fire
    Ancestor's Chosen

    Green:
    Gaea's Blessing
    Land Tutors

    Black:
    Shadow of Doubt
    Vindicate

    Blue:
    Impulse
    Mystical Teachings
    Honden of Seeing Win(ds)
    •  
      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2012
     
    I know it's mana intensive but have you thought about running Ancestral Tribute? That thing can get really mean especially if you are all about discarding.

    Totally read you on the AK's. Definitely wanted to make sure that it was understood entirely.

    Vintage kids love their Akroma's, Empyrial Archangel's, Blightsteel Colosi, and Emrakul's to fetch up with Oath.

    I love the fact that you mention Incinerate kills River Boa. Thank you for that. :)
  12.  
    I cut AK for Mystical Teachings. To fit in both would be the stone win. Maybe eventually.

    It's basically Teachings --> Intuition ---> Sandbar, Strip, Loam ---> Forbid Lock ---> Win @ My Leisure.

    There were a couple more nice tweaks that I'll publish in the next few days.

    The gist of it is I'm trying to Loam/Forbid Lock people now.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeFeb 13th 2012 edited
     
    Changes for 02/13/12:

    Red:
    -2 Firebolt
    -1 Phoenix
    +1 Gamble
    +1 Recoup
    +1 Hellion

    Gamble, while crappy, is another way to get Oath.
    Recoup is better than a Gifts Target in this deck because I have so many Walks.
    The Hellion is trading for the Phoenix since I'm trying out the new Oath creatures

    White:
    -4 Gerrard's Wisdom
    +1 Moat
    +1 Ray
    +1 Land Tax
    +1 Ivory Mask

    A little worried about the lack of lifegain now, but when I got to 4 mana and had Wisdom in hand I usually wanted to do other, more poweful things.

    Black:
    +4 Mind Twist
    +1 The Abyss
    +1 Sphinx
    -4 Rapid Decay
    -1 3B Dredge Discard Spell
    -1 Night's Whisper

    Mind Twist is insane. The End.

    Green:
    -1 Spike Weaver
    +1 Empyrial Archangel

    Trying out the new guys.

    Blue, Artifact, Lands:
    -1 Morphling
    -2 Thirst for Knowledge
    -1 DA
    -1 Scroll Rack
    - Various Extra Duals and Basics, bring total land cards to 110 from 114
    +4 Mystical Teachings
    +2 Forbid
    +1 Future Sight
    +X Various specialty lands that do things and some Karoos to get tricky.

    The ability of Mystical Teachings to get Intuition or AR or Mystical or FoW is not to be ignored.

    I welcome any comments. Thanks for reading.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeMar 13th 2012 edited
     
    Updates for March 2012:

    -3 Night's Whisper
    -1 The Abyss
    +4 Shadow of Doubt

    -1 Scroll Rack
    -1 Quiet Speculation
    +2 Mox Diamond

    Now at 0 Chasms and 4 Zorbs.

    When I upped the Zorb/Artifact count it made TFK better. So it's now 4 TFK, 4 Forbid, 0 AK.

    It's perfectly fine to pitch a Horn to TFK on turn 3 full knowing that the eventual plan is Mystical Teachings -> Intuition -> Loam, Sandbar/Strip, Academy Ruins.

    Forbid is just stupid good with Loam and the Flashback cards for late game enevitability. Moat, Wrath, Balance, Oath, and Moment's Peace against creatures.

    Redid the lands a little bit - maxed out the good man lands and seasoned it up. Definitely liking the 1 Forbidden Orchard for the Control Matchup.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeApr 22nd 2012 edited
     
    Updates for April 2012

    +2 Mox Diamond
    +1 Minamo
    +1 Oboro
    +2 Prophetic Bolt
    +1 Battlefield Scrounger
    +1 Sylvan Scrying
    +2 Impulse
    +2 Opportunity

    -2 Forbid
    -1 Halimar Depths
    -1 Crater Hellion
    -1 Recoup
    -2 Abundance
    -2 Brainstorm
    -1 Trade Routes
    -1 Scroll Rack
    -1 Flast of Insight
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeApr 28th 2012 edited
     
    4/28 Update:

    -1 Gamble
    +1 Prophetic Bolt

    +1 Replenish
    -1 Battlefield Scrounger

    -2 Mind Twist
    +1 Darkblast
    +1 Shred Memory

    -4 Mox Diamond
    +2 BS
    +2 Impulse

    +1 Copy Artifact
    +1 Gush
    -2 Opportunity

    -1 Oboro
    +1 Gilded Lotus

    -4 Non-Blue Duals
    +4 Verdant Catacombs
  13.  
    Updated for 7/24.

    Took out the Forbid/Mystical Teachings Package and added Mana Flare, Explore, and Ramping.

    Tezzeret for seeking out the HoGs - figured this was similar to turn 6 DT for HoG, cast it, and play a land. Added benefit is that it can get mana in a pinch and possibly soak up attack dmg.

    Going way more combo. Also considering some Hondens for the now more pronounced Replenish Package.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 27th 2012 edited
     
    7/27 Update

    -4 Farseek
    -1 Wrath

    +1 Gamble
    +1 Black Honden
    +2 Lands
    +1 Argivian Find (This does artifact OR enchantment. Wow. Pretty strong after Oath.)
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2012 edited
     
    7/30 Update:

    -4 Ponder
    -4 Shadow of Doubt
    -4 Fellwar Stone
    -1 Argivian Find

    +4 Farseek
    +4 Pernicious Deed
    +1 Black Honden
    +1 White Holden
    +1 Blue Honden
    +1 Mana Crypt
    +1 Sacred Ground

    -2 Wrath
    +2 Lands
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2012 edited
     
    8/7 Update -

    -4 Brainstorm
    +4 Forbidden Alchemy

    Took out Brainstorm, Ponder, and FoW now for spells that are a more expensive but have more unconditional impact. Still, I miss FoW. There's gotta be a way to do this with FoW. With FoW gone, it brings back Torch and Volcanic Geyser as win conditions rather than Invoke the Firemind.

    -1 White Honden
    +1 Wrath

    Now at 2 and 2.

    -1 Sphinx of Steel Wind
    +1 Battlefield Scrounger

    Scrounger, Witness, Rector. Super Dedicated.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeAug 10th 2012
     
    You took out brainstorm from a deck running blue spells? Is this another one of those posts that's going to be retracted later as "trolling"?
  14.  
    With

    4x Sylvan Library
    4x Top

    it felt like Brainstorm wasn't as spicy as it usually is.

    Alchemy has some nice synergy with the Replenish plan too.

    How do I get FoW back in?
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2012 edited
     
    8/13/2012 Update:

    -4 Farseek
    -4 Tezzeret

    +4 Mystical Teachings
    +4 Brainstorm

    -4 Mana Flare
    -3 Invoke the Firemind

    +4 K. Torch
    +1 Magma Jet
    +2 Honden of Infinite Rage

    -1 Sacred Ground
    +1 Argivian Find

    A. Find is also interesting in Gifts stacks.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2012 edited
     
    September 2012 Revision:

    4 of each Honden. Brainstorm, FoW, AK, and the full Mystical Teachings Package.

    4 Forbidden Alchemy to go with the Replenish Package.

    Cut 4 Faerie Conclaves but added 4 Farseek. So 4 less lands but more land-based acceleration that dodges Deed. 8 Comes-Into-Play-Tapped would be a bummer on occasion.

    Still a very Oath-centric deck but now because of the increased density and diversity of threats I can fight on a number of levels.

    Against an Aggro deck, Oath is great but so is a combo of Red and White Honden.

    Against a Control Deck there are more blue EOT spells to get tricky with, along with the usual Loam plan and forcing down a Crucible.
  15.  
    9/29 Changes:

    -4 REB
    -4 Torch
    +3 Research/Development
    +3 Banefire
    +1 Magma Jet
    +1 Fire/Ice

    -1 Argivian Find
    +1 StP

    -1 Deep Analysis
    -1 Island
    +2 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds.
  16.  
    Changes for 10/4/12:

    -3 Honden of Seeing Winds
    -1 Battlefield Scrounger
    -4 Forbidden Alchemy

    +4 Compulsive Research
    +4 Ponder
  17.  
    Update for 10/12/12:

    Posted By: frogger42You probably already know Burgeoning = Bad Exploration. If you need a couple more.


    Posted By: Illusions-GoBurgeoning is meh.



    Trying out Burgeoning.

    -3 Abundance
    +3 Burgeoning

    -4 Accumulated Knowledge/Compulsive Research
    +4 Gush
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2012 edited
     
    10/15 Changes + RTR Additions

    -4 AK
    -1 Blue Honden
    -4 White Honden
    -4 Black Honden
    -4 Red Honden
    -3 Research/Development
    -4 Farseek
    -1 Transmute Artifact
    -1 STP

    +1 Burgeoning
    +4 Mulch
    +4 Mox Diamond
    +4 Tithe
    +2 Izzet Charm
    +1 Fire/Ice
    +3 Thoughtflare
    +1 Wheel of Fortune
    +4 Grisly Salvage
    +1 Mana Vault
    +1 Sphinx's Revelation

    2 of the Salvages may become the new Regrowths.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeOct 19th 2012 edited
     
    Update for 10/19:

    -1 Replenish
    +1 Sphinx Revelation

    -1 Top
    -1 Mox Diamond
    +2 Upheaval

    -4 Burgeoning
    +4 Summer Bloom

    -1 Serra's Sanctum
    +1 Glacial Chasm

    All the green cards are working together now like never before.

    Mulch, Exploration, S. Bloom, LFTL, Sylvan Lib.

    This is sick sick sick and I'm really pleased with how the deck is ramping right now.

    One lingering issue is that it's still a tad threat-light for a 300 card deck.
  18.  
    Update for February '13:

    -X Thoughtflare
    -X Izzet Charm
    -1 Wheel

    +4 Burning Oil

    -4 Idyllic Tutor
    -4 Tithe

    +X Wrath of Good
    +X Sphinx Rev
    +1 Ray of Rev

    -4 Grisly Salvage
    -4 Pernicious Deed

    +X Inquisition
    +4 Increasing Ambition

    +4 Three Visits
    +4 Krosan Verge

    -4 Gush
    -4 Evasive Action
    -1 Time Warp

    +4 Mana Leak
    +3 Quiet Spec
    +3 Deep Analysis

    -3 Mox Diamond
    -2 Zuran Orb
    +1 Top

    Moving the deck back to Slow Combo or Control Combo. Efforts speed up the deck have exposed key pieces to removal and counters. Added more inherent 2 for 1's (flashback) and controlling elements (Wrath). Wake compliments the themes of putting lands into play (rather than artifact accel) and the X-Spell Kill.
  19.  
    Update for March 2013:

    -4 Impulse
    +4 Tezzeret

    -4 Increasing Ambition
    +4 Tainted Pact

    -4 Burning Oil
    +4 Lightning Bolt
    •  
      CommentAuthorSandwich
    • CommentTimeApr 12th 2013
     
    Have you considered running Explore?

    I feel that it might be better than Summer Bloom because it replaces itself unless you are consistently putting the maximum number of lands into play.