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    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2011 edited
    Hello all!

    Well this is my second version of the deck. Well, here it is...

    Landstill - 8/3/11

    3 - Brainstorm
    4 - Spell Snare
    4 - Swords to Plowshares
    2 - Enlightened Tutor
    4 - Standstill
    3 - Counterspell
    3 - Stoneforge Mystic
    1 - Crucible of Worlds
    4 - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 - Force of Will
    1 - Jace Beleren
    1 - Batterskull
    2 - Engineered Explosives

    4 - Flooded Strand
    1 - Polluted Delta
    4 - Tundra
    1 - Volcanic Island
    3 - Wasteland
    3 - MIshra's Factory
    1 - Horizon Canopy
    1 - Academy Ruins
    1 - Plains
    5 - Island


    2 - Path to Exile
    2 - Flusterstorm
    1 - Humility
    2 - Energy Flux
    1 - Tormod's Crypt
    1 - Disenchant
    3 - Submerge
    3 - Sundial of the Infinite

    Here is the newly redesigned deck since the stupid banning of Mental Misstep.

    I cut Elspeth for Polluted Delta and a second Engineered Explosives. Double White in this deck just seemed janky and inefficient.

    It may sound stupid but I cut Brainstorm down to a 3-of along with Counterspell because I wanted to add more lands. More often than not I was getting screwed on my land. Decreasing Wasteland to a 3-of also allowed me to add a third Factory which has been great.

    I justify the cutting of Brainstorm due to Standstill and Jace. They both act as huge card machines where Brainstorm almost always gets pitched to Force.

    I cut the Sword of Body and Mind for a singleton Jace Beleren. Although not as awesome as his bigger self, he still is card advantage in a small 3-cast package. It also helps me dispel any Sculptors played against me.

    The sideboard got moved around in order to fit 3 Sundials. Hive Mind is popular around here and it's annoying to just auto-lose to that piece of shit.

    Fire away with any comments you may have!
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2011
    As an avid Legacy player, I'd just like to mention that collecting duals and fetches for my 5-C is basically the reason I'm able to play the format. The deck looks nice, but here's what I see that could change:

    Noxious Revival - card disadvantage in this format is brutal. The only exceptions are the Mirage tutors, because they usually get something that breaks the game state (Humility, Moat, etc.) Actually, b/c Worldly stinks, that just leaves Enlightened, doesn't it...? Anyway, if the non-Phyrexian version of Revival were playable, it'd already be played.

    Remand - 2 Mana counters aren't terribly great in the format, especially when you have free ones (Daze, FoW, the Phyrexian one) and Turn 1 counters (Spell Snare, Spell Pierce). The extra card is tempting, but mostly best if you're going to try to stop a counter when you're storming out. Or if you want to replay a Brain Freeze, something like that.

    Intution - Hot card, but you're lacking 3-ofs, like Thopter Foundry, to really make this a Demonic. It's nice with Crucible, but that's too conditional, and doesn't really break that many decks (ie Merfolk and Gobos laugh at Wasteland, anyway).

    Horizon Canopy - Find a hot way to use the G, or it becomes a worse-than Plains in almost all cases. Certainly in the first few turns, which is when Legacy decks smash the crap outta each other.

    Plains x2 - I know you're thinking Elspeth, but Landstill hates getting those non-blue lands opening hand. I've played it long enough to know how frustrating mullin a 2-lander can be.

    Elspeth - Love this card, but you're better off with more Thopter Foundries. Pitches to FoW, it's faster, and more efficient (when you have the combo) PLUS gains you life.
    Jace - Perhaps 1 more?

    Cards to consider: Humility - for only $8, you get the card that's better than Moat. Fork up the cash and get 2.
    Manlands - I'm not hot on Faerie Conclave, but it does get you Blue. Mishra's Factory is beast w/ Standstill, and also hot with Thopter + Sword combo when they're trying to Surgically Extract your Sword.
    Tolaria West - provides U, tutors with Crucible, and gets EE, plus wasteland and Manlands under Standstill. Hot card for this deck.

    I've seen some Thopter decks run CB + T, but maybe that's best for the SB. Top is always good for you, as you're a sluggish beast of a deck, and you'll manage to get a ton of card quality advantage out when/if you stabilize. CB is hot B/C you have E Tutor and Brainstorm, but it's also situational. Stinks against Vial.

    Firespout - it's a 3-mana wrath! Doesn't kill goyfs.
    StoP - Kills goyfs. Play even if you have Humility in your build.

    Wow! That was a lot more than I expected. Good luck!
    • CommentTimeMay 15th 2011
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2011
    Awesome guys, thanks!

    Dude, thanks for the link. I tried forever to find a reasonable link to Landstill strategy that didn't consist of "OMG!!1! Dis is da shyt! LOL!" Appreciate it.

    Frogger, thanks for your massive reply. A few replies...

    -Noxious Revival was specifcally in for an Intuition target, along with Foundry and Sword. To be honest, the Foundry/Sword combo is in there as a secondary win condition simply because it falls so easily to Extirpate/Extraction. I don't exactly have a hard-on about this card staying in, just wanted to clarify.

    - Remand honetly replaced the original Counterspell. Ripping a card, forcing a play back in the hand, and setting up an opponent to break your Standstill if they want to replay their threat seemed fine. Daze is a king amongst men, I already play Force, and am debating Mental. Probably will go in at some point when I acquire them (I refuse to buy packs unless I draft and even then... God what a waste of money.)

    - Intuition I could do without. Is Fact or Fiction really the monster it is poised to be in a deck like this?

    - Horizon's green can be used as EE Sunbust technology. Along with that, I was thinking of siding Krosan Grips so I can battle Countertop and otehr bullshit. Speaking of which...

    - Counter/Top is great, but God do I hate how obnoxious it is. I think playing Top as is would be fine, maybe, but seems redundant with God Jace.

    - I think I am just going to break down and play Factories. Conclave just pisses me off since it comes into play tapped and besdies, Elspeth can grant that all amazing +3/+3 and flying on a whim.

    - On the topic of Elspeth, she is batshit insane in this build. It may sound stupid, but I think I would rather play her over God Jace. Seems ridiculous but she can stall out the game so hard. She pumps out tokens under a Standstill, is easy (relatively) to cast, and can break stalemates. If I had to choose, I would rather play her than Thopter/Sword any day. Probably dumb, but I am a stubborn dick.

    - Humility, what a fucking awesome idea! Wow, I saw it in some SB's but wow, that seems hot. I'd much rather play that than Wrath which I've seen in some builds. The only larger creature I run would be Factory after all. Question: Since Factory's ability would register after Humility's, is it a 2/2 or a 1/1? I know there is some stupid rulings system with Humility that bases effects whether or not it applied before or after Humility was dropped on the board. Any help with that one would be awesome.

    And yeah, thanks a lot guys!
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2011
    Oh yeah, and I am surprised I forgot to mention Swords. It is in my build, I just must have forgotten to include it. I'll edit the initial post.

    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2011
    Factory's a 2/2 under humility, btw... no creature types, and no abilities, but as long as you didn't activate the factory BEFORE playing the humility, it would still be a 2/2 creature. I never did try to understand the layer rules enough to explain to you why this is, but I know that's the rule.
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2011
    Posted By: DipstikFactory's a 2/2 under humility, btw... no creature types, and no abilities, but as long as you didn't activate the factory BEFORE playing the humility, it would still be a 2/2 creature. I never did try to understand the layer rules enough to explain to you why this is, but I know that's the rule.

    Nice, well that definitely changes things. Factory goes in!
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2011
    Yeah, Humility's P/T setting ability falls under the same layer as the Factory's P/T setting ability. Factory's only ever a 1/1 if it's animated and THEN you play Humility for some reason. Just keep in mind he loses the pump ability (and other abilities) when he's a creature.

    Check out this link for legacy a week ago:

    U/W Standstill in the T4? Is this 2002 all over again? Mental Misstep has apparently shredded Merflock's grip on the T4, so it's most likely an auto-include. Rips aggro to sh!t.
    Other cards to note are the Vedalken Shackles, Repeal (super-awesome! bounce dude EoT, lay the Still) and... ugh... Counterspell. That third one just seems like a mistake. But Shackles seems like it'd help a ton, esp if you're finding it rough to rip the WW for Humility.

    But that link's there to give you ideas, and that's not to say it's the "definitive decklist" right now. Kinda stinks that I might have to face this in Providence next week, but Jace should be my only real threat, and I run quad him. You guys'll see a decklist when I T16 in a week ;).
    • CommentTimeMay 22nd 2011
    Nice! Awesome link and thanks for the thoughts. I keep forgetting about Shackles despite trading for 3 of them with the intent of playing them.

    Repeal seems like the nuts! I wonder if I should take out Spell Snare out of my current build for it. Hmmm.

    I think it's odd that the 2nd place finisher has no Factories while the 3rd place has 3-4 of them in the build.

    Mental Misstep is a house also.
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
    Went 5-4 in GP Prov, so most likely you guys didn't see my rogue Mud decklist. Unless you happened to be the only other guy there playing it. You play in Prov there, or just at a local place JD?
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2011
    Sorry for the delay Frog. I was not at that GP. I'm looking mainly to get into Legacy, starting at smaller venues until I feel comfortable with the format and than move my way higher up. Nothing wildly so, more for the fun of it.
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2011
    New decklist has been submitted as the first comment.

    Card explanations and such follow.

    Any and all comments are welcome! Thanks!
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2011
    Hey JD,
    It looks great! I still think Tolaria West is super-hot, and I def run 3 in my Mud deck (which allows me 3 Factory, 3 Wasteland -> basically 6 copies of each). I personally think you can/ should go down at least 1 copy of Wasteland (considering multiples w/Crucible is redundant) and up at least 1 Factory instead. Maybe cut 2 Islands for 2 Tol West, which'll work under Standstill, get Horizon for EE, and get EE itself. Just a suggestion, though, and it looks pretty solid. How's your Merflock matchup...? (Vial's a real jerk to you - and you don't run Firespout MD...).
    Also, you may not have seen this, but Gargoyle Castle + Crucible = Wreck your opponent in an embarrassing way. But you might not have room, sadly...
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2011
    Ha, the castle is actually a really interesting idea but I think more cute than anything.

    I did some playing and came to the conclusion that I felt like I got mana-screwed a lot. So I have upped the land count to 24 which puts me currently playing 3 each of Wasteland and Factory. I couldn't agree more about the redundancy of Wasteland with Crucible. I was even debating about cutting it down to 2 Wasteland but meh, who knows.

    Although I don't run Firespout main, I do run Humility on the side. Should I run Wrath? Just seems meh in most matchups.

    Tolaria West is fantastic and I know I should run it. I just hate the CIPT bit if I did happen to need it in the clutch. Then again, it's more for a tutor than a land drop. Hmmm. I will definitely think about it.

    Thanks for the ideas and thoughts!
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2011
    Anything less than 4 wastelands and you're not really taking this serious... it's one of the best cards in legacy. It's not redundant if you draw two of them in your opening hand and turn their 3 land opener into a 1 land opener before you ever drop a crucible. Also, when you're only running one crucible, the fact that wasteland is "redundant" under a crucible is sort of irrelevant. Run 4 wastelands.
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2011
    I respectfully disagree on x4 Wastelands. You've got 1 Crucible, plus 2 tutors, plus 4 Standstills/ B-Storms = about 4 Crucibles. With this kinda deck, any way you can 'cheat' your opening hand to have a blue source in it is viable, even if you need to drop that Tol West tapped. I've played Landstill before the onslaught of PW'ers, and know it's the worst feeling to pitch a 2-3 lander because you don't have a blue source in there. I wouldn't go down to 2 Wastelands, anyway.
    Wrath stinks. If you need to wipe something bad, run Retribution of the Meek or the artifact Clone (to wipe legends - Emrakul or Teeg). Hey, that clone tutors up, too!
    On a side note, my Mud deck runs into trouble with the Blue Men. Any thoughts on beating them? I've got access to UU, B (most likely not BB), and 2-3 colorless mana in addition. All I've got is Llawan (combos great with Teh Abyss) and Extinction. And E Plague stinks against all the lords. Anything else out there I haven't thought of?
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2011
    Chapman, Wasteland is insane but I gotta give this one to Frogger. I certainly wouldn't run 2 (although, as I said, it was a thought... a dumb one at best) but 4 is too much. With my E-Tutors and the shit ton of card draw I have, grabbing a Crucible isn't all to difficult. Is Wasteland good? Damn right. Do I NEED 4? Nah, 3 should be sufficient especially if it means playing more threats. Too many games I would rip a Wasteland late and just be annoyed. 3 seems a sufficient number that I will still see it in openers frequently but it won't clog the piss out of me hand.

    Wrath is poop. It was only a thought. Great idea on the Metamorph though... interesting. I currently run Humility as an out against Show and Tell-Emrakul decks. Might be stupid but who knows.

    This will probably sound terrible but I have been deeply thinking about Gitaxian Probe somewhere in the list (God knows where). Seems like it could be a great way to garner information while advancing my own plans (Is my Stoneforge going to run into a Spell Snare, for example). It also lets me rip an E. Tutor target right away making that card really insane. Also Force pitchable (obvious but still relevant). Thoughts?

    As for your deck, Frogger, a buddy of mine runs a Mud deck much to the same degree (or so it seems) as yours. The kicker he runs is Transmute Artifact which is, in my opinion, absolutely devestating. Usually if he fires one off on me, I am done. His targets are Wurmcoil Engine (for beatdown and life gain), Myr Battlesphere (helps give him tokens to burn to Smokestack or as chumpblockers), or Sundering Titan (which, as I was saying, is absolutely devastating as a one sided Armageddon).

    Otherwise, have you thought about something like Meekstone? It's easy to cast, gets out early, and locks them down when they start getting out of control creatures. It also fits your Mud theme. Works great against Tarmogoyf.dec or Team America as well. I personally love Meekstone because I feel like it doesn't get the love it truly deserves.
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2011
    It's more a Stax build-style Mud deck. I've heard rumors of people out there trying to break it, and it goes by different names, but mine's Muddy Waters. Might as well put it up, and hope no one visits these forums to steal my idea:

    27 Lands (yes, this is true) Tol West x3, Waste x3, Factory x3, G Castle x1, etc.

    Eng Exp. x1
    Mox Diamond x4 (even with 27 lands)
    Chalice ot V x4
    Trinisphere x4
    Crucible of W x4
    Lodestone Golem x4 (1 foil! which I stole from a buddy!)
    The Abyss x4
    Jace TMS x4
    Tezzeret AoB x4

    Meekstone gives me wet dreams JD, but I can't run it unless I drop Chalice/ Trinisphere. I usually drop Chalice against Merfolks, but would keep it in against rock and every non-Vial matchup. MRG! So basically things have to start at 3 CMC for my deck, or be another Eng Exp. I'm thinking of tinkering the manabase to run Damnation in the SB as the double black is a b---- (which reminds me):

    E Plague 4
    Ensnaring Bridge 4
    Metamorph x4 ??? Whatever people bring on Sunday
    Zorb 1
    Crypt 1
    Pact of Black 1 (for Teeg)

    No Tabernacle in MD or SB; I've tested it and it stinks. Garg Castle = end game for fellow Control matchups, be it Landstill or what have you. Moreso than the Wastelandable Maze of Ith, though I need to playtest that card some. And I don't really want to cut back on my 4 basics (3 island, 1 swamp) to get the BB for Damnation...
    I'll leave a discussion of its place in the meta for another time... let's say I love Mental Misstep and Spell Snare G1, though.
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2011
    List updated once again for your viewing pleasure.