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      CommentAuthorJD.5
    • CommentTimeMar 12th 2011
     
    Um, anyone know why the B&R page is not working? Just goes to weird screen with a bunch of computer talk.

    Wanted to clarify something to a bunch of possible 5-Color players but can't remember what is all on the lists.

    Thanks!
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeMar 15th 2011
     
    Seems something happened to the host. I'm working on getting it moved to my usual host. Here's the list in the meantime:


    +-----------------------------------------+
    | id | name | status |
    +-----------------------------------------+
    | 1 | Battle of Wits | b |
    | 2 | Bringer Of The Black Dawn | b |
    | 69 | Darkpact | b |
    | 4 | Holistic Wisdom | b |
    | 3 | Insidious Dreams | b |
    | 5 | Parallel Thoughts | b |
    | 6 | Phyrexian Portal | b |
    | 9 | Shahrazad | b |
    | 8 | Sundering Titan | b |
    | 10 | Academy Rector | r |
    | 12 | All Sun's Dawn | r |
    | 11 | Ancestral Recall | r |
    | 13 | Balance | r |
    | 14 | Black Lotus | r |
    | 16 | Chaos Orb | r |
    | 17 | Crop Rotation | r |
    | 37 | Crucible of Worlds | r |
    | 19 | Demonic Consultation | r |
    | 20 | Demonic Tutor | r |
    | 23 | Divining Witch | r |
    | 24 | Enlightened Tutor | r |
    | 25 | Eternal Witness | r |
    | 26 | Fabricate | r |
    | 27 | Fastbond | r |
    | 29 | Gamble | r |
    | 42 | Gifts Ungiven | r |
    | 32 | Grim Tutor | r |
    | 33 | Hermit Druid | r |
    | 15 | Imperial Seal | r |
    | 22 | Intuition | r |
    | 34 | Isochron Scepter | r |
    | 35 | Library of Alexandria | r |
    | 38 | Mana Crypt | r |
    | 39 | Mana Vault | r |
    | 41 | Merchant Scroll | r |
    | 44 | Mox Crystal | r |
    | 45 | Mox Emerald | r |
    | 46 | Mox Jet | r |
    | 47 | Mox Pearl | r |
    | 49 | Mox Ruby | r |
    | 48 | Mox Sapphire | r |
    | 21 | Mystical Tutor | r |
    | 54 | Nostalgic Dreams | r |
    | 40 | Oath of Druids | r |
    | 68 | Panoptic Mirror | r |
    | 51 | Personal Tutor | r |
    | 53 | Regrowth | r |
    | 55 | Sol Ring | r |
    | 56 | Strip Mine | r |
    | 43 | Survival of the Fittest | r |
    | 58 | Sylvan Scrying | r |
    | 59 | Time Spiral | r |
    | 60 | Timetwister | r |
    | 66 | Time Vault | r |
    | 28 | Time Walk | r |
    | 30 | Tinker | r |
    | 63 | Tolarian Academy | r |
    | 61 | Transmute Artifact | r |
    | 52 | Vampiric Tutor | r |
    | 65 | Wheel of Fortune | r |
    | 36 | Yawgmoth's Bargain | r |
    | 50 | Yawgmoth's Will | r |
    +-----------------------------------------+
    •  
      CommentAuthorChimaera
    • CommentTimeMar 16th 2011
     
    Is there any record of the old published articles or are those history?
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeMar 17th 2011
     
    I do have them, but in raw database format. I'm not sure I have the code for the old site anymore...I'm looking for it though.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2011
     
    Can anyone refresh my memory on when Survival came off the banned list?
    •  
      CommentAuthorChimaera
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    Sometime after the split in the format I believe.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    "split..." that's cute.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    Survival is unbanned? Shit that's crazy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    That's what I thought! I think this was a part of the reforms that took place back when Contract was unrestricted (all praises to the Dictator!), but I honestly can't remember any discussion of Contract coming off the banned list or why. I also just dug through old threads looking for a discussion and couldn't find anything.

    Oh well. I guess if people want to break it again, we'll need to run some tournaments.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    Tournaments? Shit that's crazy.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfrogger42
    • CommentTimeJun 6th 2011
     
    Tournaments? Bring 'em to New England! Had a couple thoughts on B&R:
    Stoneforge - gets Batterskull all of a sudden. Seems like this guy's a brick house now, so should he be B or R'd? (As if running Clamp 9-12+ wasn't bad enough...)
    Green Sun's Zenith - another great tutor, but might it be degenerate? I know it's vicious in Legacy right now, and is just about chewing up the format (along with Stoneforge). Dryad Arbor (this counts as a green slot, right?) -> Goyf -> random green toolbox/Eternal Witness makes it Mana Accel + Fattie + I deal with (nearly) everything, moreso than in Legacy. I'm thinking it might verge on the Redonk, even if it doesn't hit Contract.
    Etched Monstrosity - not to B or R, but I just want to go on the record that I actually run one. I'm a sucker for 10/10s that you can Enlightened Tutor into.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2011
     
    who the fuck took necropotence off the restricted list?
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2011
     
    That card is terrible.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2011
     
    Well when a friend of mine was showing me the list he's working on for ante and I saw "4x necropotence" I had a WTF moment.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2011
     
    I'll play against 4 necros all day long. It's been bad for like 10 years.
    •  
      CommentAuthorpsyburat
    • CommentTimeJun 15th 2011
     
    Hypergenesis is pretty bonkers.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJun 17th 2011
     
    It'd be nice if you could get the B/R page working again because I'm trying to build a playgroup up here and it's difficult to direct them to this thread to find it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2011
     
    Fine. I'll do something this week.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJul 15th 2011
     
    "Fine. I'll do something this week." - Dated almost a month ago.

    Love you, Zombor.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJul 20th 2011
     
    FINE! fuck.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJul 29th 2011
     
    ...and we're back: http://www.5-color.com/banned.html

    If anyone cares, the site's now open source as well: https://github.com/zombor/5-color.com
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2011
     
    Zombor you're my hero. What's open source? =P
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeJul 30th 2011 edited
     
    You can see how the site works, and contribute to it if you'd like. I rewrote the whole thing in an hour.
  1.  
    Are Will and Recoup really legal 4x?

    http://5-color.com/banned.html

    1st Post on the new Forum. Thnx.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2011
     
    Wow... good catch. I don't know about recoup, but I do remember that it was a MAJOR controversy a while ago when Yawgmoth's Will got taken off the banned list. Presumably it should have been placed back on the restricted list. I blame Bush.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeOct 31st 2011
     
    I thought I added will back. It was omitted on the new site job. I'll do it tonight.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2011
     
    Nearly one month passes...
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2011
     
    I was unable to find the old post from when the B/R list was exploded a couple years ago... now that it's been pointed out to me that there are errors on the current list, I wanted to double-check a couple cards. I think most of these cards were banned for a period of time and then taken off the banned list... I think they're supposed to be restricted now, but I could be wrong.

    1) The good Wishes
    2) Wild Research
    3) Memory Jar

    If you don't know, please don't comment. I'm not trying to start an argument on whether these SHOULD be banned or restricted, just asking whether they are.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011
     
    Now it's fixed. I had a bug in the way the list was generated.

    The list at the top of this thread should have been the current list (That was taken from the old host). IIRC, all those cards were removed long ago. It's possible they were removed in the 2009 rework. I'd have to look at my chat history on my other computer.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011
     
    Well I know for a fact that we toyed with banning all the wishes for a while, but I don't EVER remember a time when Cunning/living/Burning Wish were unrestricted. Wild Research and Memory Jar are two other cards that I don't ever remember a time when they were legal as a 4-of.

    But hey... if you say they're wide open, my ante deck just got better.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011 edited
     

    From my memory:

    Wild Research and Memory Jar are two other cards that I don't ever remember a time when they were legal as a 4-of.

    No, they went from banned to -R in the change.

    Wishes were removed because the DCI nerfed them. The 5-color rules say:

    All play is governed by standard DCI rules except where noted below.

    There's no 5-color wish rules anymore, so the wishes are pretty much useless.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011
     
    From the DCI announcement of the Magic 2010 rules changes:

    "2C) Exile

    The Reality: "Removed from the game" is increasingly a misnomer as we design more cards that use the removed-from-the-game zone as a temporary holding cell for cards that are very much still in the game. Like the "in-play zone," the name "removed-from-the-game zone" does a poor job of maintaining the game's fantasy metaphor.

    The Fix: The phrase "remove from the game" is being changed to "exile," which is shorter, more flavorful, and not at all misleading about actually being in the game. The zone is now called the "exile zone" and cards in it will be referred to as "exiled cards."

    The Details: This is, for the most part, another cut-and-paste terminology change. Every card that removes something from the game, from Jester's Cap to Astral Slide to Identity Crisis, will be getting errata to use the word "exile" instead. But none of these cards are functionally changing.

    However, the acknowledgment that this zone is, in fact, fully within the game does bring about functional changes to the six Wishes, Ring of Ma'rûf, and the Research half of Research // Development. These cards let you get cards from "outside the game," which has been ruled to include your card collection (in casual games), your sideboard (in tournament games), and the removed-from-the-game zone. That's no longer the case. Exiled cards are not outside the game (and you could argue that they never really were), so these cards will no longer be able to access cards in that zone. Their primary functionality—getting cards from your collection or sideboard—remains unchanged, of course."

    How on earth did that change affect 5-color play? We've always played with the "wish-board" rules... if the functionality of the wishes changed in 5-color, it's not because of the M2010 rule changes. What am I missing?
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011 edited
     

    Because you can't get RFG cards anymore. Nobody is scared of you trudging through your collection. Recasting time spiral over and over is kind of scary though.

    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 28th 2011
     
    That's funny. As long as I've been playing with and against the wishes, I can probably count on two hands (Maybe I'd have to take one shoe off) the number of times I've seen anyone wish for a card that was legitimately RFG. Wishes are a game of mental magic where a person casts it and asks himself "what's the best card I can think of in the current situation?" They're tutors, not combo pieces.

    Oh well. If they are unrestricted, they're unrestricted. I'll continue to abuse the situation in the meantime =P

    Anyone got some cunning wishes for sale cheap? The worse condition the better. Living Wishes too. Burning Wish is probably too expensive to play 4x for ante, but I'm tempted. One contract goes into the board to make room, of course.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    They're tutors, not combo pieces.

    Yep, they are tutors. There are lots of unrestricted tutors in 5-color now.

  2.  
    Zombor, thanks for the update regarding the B&R List and Y. Will.

    Mind Twist legal at 4x seems incredibly degenerate. Is that an omission or reality?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     
    That's legit. I definitely remember that being lobbied for. Try playing it for a bit, and you'll realize it's not as broken as it looks. There are lots of sorceries that can bust the game wide open for 5 mana or more.
    •  
      CommentAuthorzombor
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     

    You going to twist my hand away turn 2? Good job, you could have killed me with lots of other things instead of letting me keep playing.

  3.  
    Ok. Right on. Thanks for the clarification. Am going to definitely test with 4x Twist.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 29th 2011
     
    Where are you playing, I-G? You're not in the eastern wisconsin area, are you?
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2011 edited
     
    Bay Area, CA. Playing on MWS exclusively.

    Edit: Dipstik, I'm down to game. Email is on my member page.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDipstik
    • CommentTimeNov 30th 2011
     
    I don't have MWS installed anymore, and my 5-color play is limited to ante games these days. Once I get my new computer up and running, however, I'll think about re-installing it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorIllusions-Go
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2012 edited
     
    ...